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Subject: Fallujah
I read Cole's piece. I'm really not convinced on that evidence that this was really the work of people who truly believe that they are pushing an Islamist agenda.a. Fallujah simply is not a place where, to my understanding, Islamic fundamentalism has deep roots. It was a secular Baathist stronghold.
b. The leaflets prove little. In fact, their style makes me suspicious: just as the communists tried a build a "broad front" in their war on the French in Indochina (despite the fact that their ultimate goal was not just an independent Vietnam, but also a Communist one), so to do the Baathists have an incentive to carry on such a charade. The Baathists have been the main set of antagonists fighting the US in Iraq, but for important reasons (mainly the fact that Iraqis won't forget that the Baathists made their lives hell for 30 years) their struggle has not gained wider support. This sounds like the classic cynical attempt to co-opt another movement to broaden your base.
So, in the end, I don't think that this is (misguided) Islamic fundamentalism. This is a cynical ploy by the Baathists.
People invoke religion all the time when their real agenda is something else. ("Oh yes, go forth and force the light of Christianity onto the godless heathen" said Ferdinand of Spain and his successors said to the conquistadors. And, they all added quietly "If, in the course of bringing the aforementioned godless heathen to task, you should happend to discover and exploit for my benefit, and a small cut for yourself, gold and silver mines and other natural reasources, well....isn't that a just reward for such righteous Christians as ourselves?") When people do exploit a religion for cynical purposes, I don't think that the truly devout followers of that religion should feel like they have to explain themselves. The blame lies with the con men, not the conned.
Subject: Was it reported right?
As-Salaamu 'alaikum,I saw reports on this on the BBC News, and they said something like it was so gruesome they couldn't show everything.
Has anyone out there actually seen the really gruesome bits? Is it absolutely certain that this story is genuine?
Subject: Re: Was it reported right?
I've seen some stuff that was fairly bad. I saw the following footage:a. The SUV set afire after the occupants were killed. This burned the bodies of the American dead.
b. At least one of the bodies had parts (eg arms, though it was hard to tell b/c of the burn) cut off and tied to chunks of concrete. They were then flung up onto power lines.
c. At least one body was then trampled by the mob, tied to the back of an SUV, and dragged along the streets.
d. At some point, one or more of the bodies (and parts thereof) were hung from a bridge.
For b.-d., the bodies were basically burned to a crisp.
It was a sufficiently coherent action that I think that this bit of political theater was staged. I think in earlier posts I've made it clear who I blame.
Subject: Well spoken
Al-Muhajabah, you are awesome. Well said in this post.Subject: The Fallujah Killings
American reporting on the killings in Fallujah is really *really* bad:First we have CNN, e.g., calling the victims "civilians," forgetting to tell people that this is a military code-word for soldiers out of uniform. The four men killed were hired mercenaries.
Second, nobody in the American press is putting the killings in context: the previous day a Marine Corps convoy had been attacked by stone throwers, and the Marines had returned after the trucks got through, to shoot up the crowd. They hit twenty people, two fatally.
Te killings were explicit mob revenge for the intial Marine atrocity the previous day. Not nice, obviously, but entirely understandable.
Subject: Re: The Fallujah Killings
I wouldn't be so quick to judge the US media, my friend. Everyone, everyone has their own agenda and emphasizes their own truths. Your sources aren't necessarily more objective; they are just different. Moreover:1. In the continuous cycle of violence that has been Fallujah, it is really tough to identify a "root" incident.
2. I'm a little troubled by the implicit disparagement of these men in your comments. Yes, they were hired security, but you don't really know anything about their mission, motivations, etc. And neither do I. Certainly, in terms of their own personal circumstances, the attack on them was, it appears at this point, more or less unprovoked. Be careful about labelling people: we all have some larger group identities that, in the right circumstances, could get us into allot of trouble.
3. I have heard varying accounts (and not just in the US media) of this thing with the Marines and the stonethrowers. It isn't really clear exactly what happened.
Subject: Re: The Fallujah Killings
On re-reading my post to you, the tone seems harsher than I had intended. My central point is this: the first casualty of war is truth. And everybody's truth is hit equally hard. In the face of such massive bloodshed, it is basically impossible to maintain objectivity, to see larger truths, etc. No one is immune from that.Subject: Anyone confirm rock throwing story?
As-Salaamu 'alaikum, Can anyone confirm the rock throwing story David Loyd Jones mentioned earlier?