France's fight to keep religion out of schools has entered new - and some say absurd - territory. Teachers and some religious leaders fumed Wednesday over a government minister's call to ban beards and bandannas from classrooms along with Islamic head scarves, Jewish skullcaps and Christian crosses. Muslim leaders were divided, with some denouncing a curb on facial hair as "total delirium." Others said street protests against the planned law had rattled the government and provoked a crackdown.Did anybody really think it would stop with headscarves? Congratulations, France. Afghanistan enforced the religious beard, now you're banning it. Can we say "secular fundamentalist state"?
Le Monde newspaper devoted its front-page cartoon to the subject, showing a teacher inspecting a student's beard with a magnifying glass, as veiled women with big smiles looked on.
The latest twist in France's controversial plan to ban religious symbols from classrooms came Tuesday, when Education Minister Luc Ferry said the planned ban on religious symbols could also cover facial hair and bandannas, sometimes worn as a discreet alternative to the traditional Muslim head scarf.
Ferry made the comments during a parliamentary debate, where lawmakers questioned whether the wording of the bill was tough enough. They asked if the ban should cover "visible" religious symbols, rather than "conspicuous" symbols, as the draft law states.
Ferry said the existing wording would allow for a broader interpretation of the law.
And so, "if a beard is transformed into a religious sign it will fall under the law," Ferry said. Likewise, a bandanna "will be banned, if young girls present it as a religious sign."
This came as a shock to many in France, particularly to teachers who will be at the front line of policing the new law, expected to be in place for the next school year in September. Lawmakers begin debating the bill Feb. 3.
"Beards? Bandannas?" asked Daniel Robin, national secretary of France's largest union for high school teachers. "What next?"
"This exercise has become absurd. Totally absurd," he said in a telephone interview.
How will teachers identify religious facial hair? Would they reprimand a "religious" bandanna but allow it as a fashion statement?
"I don't know how to respond to these questions," said Robin, who added that boys too lazy to shave never were punished in the past. "Beards were never a problem before. Let's not create new problems."
The Education Ministry did not respond to calls asking for clarification of Ferry's remarks.
Ferry declined to speak to reporters as he left a Cabinet meeting Wednesday. Government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope spoke on his behalf, saying only that the new law would be applied "with discretion."
President Jacques Chirac says the law's goal is to protect France's secular underpinnings. However, it also is seen as a way to hold back Islamic fundamentalism in the nation's Muslim community, at an estimated 5 million the largest in Western Europe.
Last weekend, up to 10,000 people - mostly Muslim women in head scarves - marched in Paris to protest the planned law.
The march was organized by the Party of Muslims of France, a small group known for its radical views. The group's president, Mohamed Latreche, called banning of facial hair "total delirium."
"This law has become a farce," he said by telephone. "It's not up to the government to tell us if we can grow beards.
"It proves what we've been saying all along - that this law is anti-Muslim," Latreche said.
Dalil Boubakeur, president of the French council of the Muslim religion, had discouraged Muslims from attending the protest, saying the rally would exacerbate the anti-Muslim climate.
"Now, you see the repercussions," Boubakeur said, adding that a ban on bandannas or beards showed "the government was toughening its position."
"I told people not to demonstrate. I told them they'd scare French people - and this fear would result in France closing the door."
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Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
I find it odd that I haven't come across references, in the discussion of this event, to Turkey's legislated secularism or Uzbekistan's, for that matter. I read in a book, "Turkey Unveiled" (that I only mention as a source and don't mean to endorse), that secularism, in Turkey, amounted to state interference in matters of religion and affairs of the Mosque as opposed to a separation of "church" and state as westerners tend to view it.I do hope that France gets over this.
Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
Yes, this is true. I have a page here that discusses the problem of anti-hijab discrimination, which is by no means limited to France. I also posted about the situation in Uzbekistan back in May of last year.Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
Thanks for the guidance.Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
The most grating thing is the notion that the protests provoked the beard law.I have no doubt said law was already in the works, protests or no.
How can you have a law against beards? BEARDS! Utter hysteria. Has anyone heard from our Muslim French friend who posts here?
Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
I'm still here Laura, thank you for thinking of me...by the way, I'm American, but I live in France. Making it doubly hard to live here because my American sense of freedom and tolerance are being assaulted daily in the Islamophobic atmosphere here.I haven't been posting much, because I am busy with life and things. I'm also looking for a place to contribute my perspective on this issue for Americans and other English speakers. Kind of like a regular "media watch" on the French media, because you aren't getting the whole story, they don't report the half of it in the international media. Plus I have so many personal testimonies from my Muslim friends here, I want people to hear them.
So far, can't find anyone who will take me seriously because they want professional qualifications, and I can't work here so my resume has stagnated, and I'm not a journalist anyway. Even if I had a work visa here...NO ONE would hire me. These anti-hijab laws are supposedly only referring to public schools and government services, but believe me...no matter what the law says or doesn't, people in the private sector DON'T hire hijabis, in any job, EVER. That's what's so ridiculous about these laws...they know full well it's not just a public sector issue.
I guess I've already said what there is to say about the absurdity of this issue...if I say any more my head will start spinning in circles and I'll spit up pea soup. Plus you don't realise that this stuff is new for you, but it's not new for us...this discrimination has been going on for years and years. Beards and hijab were already dirty words (and "symbols") here long before it came out in the international press. Same ole same ole for me.
I'm doing a lot of knitting to stay calm... it's quite therapeutic, and if I can't feel productive in any other sector in life, I can at least get some satisfaction from dressing my family in some handsome Arans.
Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
On the silly side, do you get a warning for 5 o'clock shadow?Honestly, this is getting out of hand. Who is to decide what is being worn for religious reasons? What a tit-for-tat debate.
Teacher: C'est une barbe religieuse! (That's a religious beard!)
Student: Non, il n'est pas! (No its not!)
Teacher: Oui, il est! (Yes it is!)
Non, Oui, Non Oui oy vey!
(BTW- props to google translation tools that make it look like I know some French...ahahah)
What a strange world. Next thing... wearing clothing will be considered religious! Viva la nude Paris!
Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
Assalamu Alakum Wa RahmatulahThere should be a time, when lunacy should be revealed for what it is. It is pure nonsense - from leaders, however, it is not funny, but disturbing and dangerous.
You cannot ban a persons right to wear Hijab, and you cannot ban their right to wear a beard. A BEARD of all things. There is an imperative to draw the line. Yes, secularism, like many things, can be taken to extremes.
Wassalam
Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
I can't resist playing devil's advocate for a moment:The French law explicitly bans any overt religious display, right? Which means it applies equally to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. So why all the emphasis on this being anti-Muslim? There's half a million Jews in France who are presumably affected by it, and there's countless millions of Catholics.
I think the law is extreme, but its essence is merely the assertion that a public, tax-funded institution is to be kept separate from any kind of confessional display. Given the overt political overtones surrounding religion these days, that is not only constitutional, it's sensible.
As a Jew I simply don't find this law anti-semitic. Burning a synagogue, now that's anti-semitic. Voting for La Pen, THAT'S anti-Muslim.
The point is, we may be better served by saving the identity politics for when we really need it.
Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
No, the law is not anti-Muslim on paper, but the reports from France are that it is anti-Muslim in the way that it is enforced.Let me make this clear, Jonathan. If I were in France I would have to choose between going to school, or any other public building, and following my religion. That is simply not acceptable. Call it "identity politics" and sneer if you want. I see no reason why a piece of fabric on my head, worn as an expression of my beliefs, should result in the restriction of my citizenship rights.
Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
I certainly hope I didn't "sneer" as I wrote that. If there is asymetric enforcement of the law, then of course you are right in saying it's anti-Muslim.I've always felt this law was overheated to the point of being useless. A person's dress is their own matter, so long as it doesn't intend to offend others. And as someone with a few religious friends, I don't mean to be insensitive to the effect it would likely have on their ability to participate in society.
I do, however, admire the French attempt to keep their public institutions secular. It's something we're very sloppy with in America, and it at least partially explains our rich scholastic tradition of book banning and creationism.
A pity that they stoked the flames and accomplished the opposite.
Subject: Re: beards now deemed threat to French secularism
What people believe in is their religion. Those who believe in secularism, secularism is their religion. It's their belief system, which influences their lifestyle, their conduct, their mode of dress and their morals. If France imposes their secular belief on the Muslims of their country, they are simply forcing the state religion on them and they should stop being so hypocritical and simply say, "We don't want you to be able to practice your religion, we want you to practice our religion"