The controversial retraction of two millennia of Christian doctrine has provoked strongly divided reaction. Millions of devout Christians, insisting that obeisance to Christ's commands is the cornerstone of their faith, have heeded His instructions and converted to Islam. Millions more, however, have decried the recalcitrant Christ's apostasy, breaking ties with Him and calling His conversion "a heathen act" of "utmost blasphemy before Himself." "Jesus, or Isa Shabazz, or whatever He's calling Himself these days, is the way, the truth and the light. It says so in the Bible," said devout Catholic Kathleen Langan of Cork, Ireland, kneeling toward Mecca for the first time. "My loyalty to Him is absolute. If He told me to be a Buddhist, I'd do it. All praise and thanks to Allah."How many Christians would react as Kathleen Langan is depicted is doing, and how many would react as Ruth Ann Girolamo is depicted as doing? If you're a Christian and this happened, would you be Kathleen or Ruth Ann? On what basis?
Ruth-Anne Girolamo, a Sunday school teacher in Stillwater, OK, disagreed. "I've been a Bible-believing Christian all my life, and nothing, not even a direct order from Christ Himself, is going to change that," Girolamo said. "If Christ is going to leave the fold and become a sinner, we'll just have to go on worshipping Him against His will."
The Roman Catholic Church is just as divided: Approximately half the members of the Vatican's College of Cardinals have advocated embracing Islamic law, while the other half is calling for Christ's immediate excommunication and recommending the interim worship of Pope John Paul II until a suitable replacement deity can be found.
In perhaps the oddest development, the Jews For Jesus organization announced Monday that it has split into three separate groups: Jews Still For Jesus, Jews For Allah, and Jews For Just Being Jews Again.
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Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
As salaam alaikum,The article also got Jesus' Qur'anic title correct :
"As part of His conversion, Christ said He has taken a new name, Isa Ibn Maryam"
Son of Mary occurs, I believe, only once in the gospels (Mark's gospel - the oldest of the four and the one which is believed to have been used as a basis for the other three) but is used throughout the qur'an to refer to Jesus. However, the article is clearly taking a humorous swipe at the glib conversion testimonials that can be found across the net (at both Muslim and Christian sites).
Wasalaam
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
Yeah, but Christians say "Jesus, Son of Mary" all the time. It comes up in Christmas carols and stuff.Quick biblical scholarship nerd note: Mark is one of the key sources for Matthew and Luke, but not John.
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
Well, my dear sister.It is indeed difficult to know what is true, and who's a prophet, and who's not.
Do remember, sins against the Holy Spirit are not to be forgiven.
What does this mean?
It means, don't be critical of someone elses religion, practices, or revelation unless you're absolutely sure.
Salaam alechym to you my good sister.
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
How many Christians would react as Kathleen Langan is depicted is doing, and how many would react as Ruth Ann Girolamo is depicted as doing? If you're a Christian and this happened, would you be Kathleen or Ruth Ann? On what basis?Heh, well, as you know, I have a lot of personal demons with calling myself "a Christian", given that I do not accept even the basics of Christian doctrines. But I am aware that with my background (daughter of two ordained ministers, seeped in church environment until age 21), any one with any understanding of Christianity and the way it works in the world today would label me so, and culturally speaking, they would not necessarily be wrong.
So it is a case of just trying to be a responsible individual v-v the legacy I did not ask for, but have inherited, nonetheless; and also being aware that certain Black Christian churches as institutions have done some great (and also life- and world-changing) work. If it were me, I would be happy to know that Jesus actively chose a religion that actually makes sense, as opposed to Christianty. I'd have to throw my lot in with Kathleen.
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
I really am curious what people have to say about this and what reasons they give. I hope that more people will share their thoughts as well, inshallah.
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
I'd have to think about this more, but offhand, the two main elements of my beliefs that would be affected would be my view of Christ's divinity and the Qur'an's infallibility. The latter would probably have more practical effect, as my spiritual sense has always been more affected by the Incarnation than the Resurrection.btw, How do we know Jesus isn't just practicing taqiya? And since he was originally a Jew anyway who possibly didn't claim divinity in his own lifetime, could this just be another manifestation of that? Maybe he's going to pull the business about returning just pre-Mahdi after the same style?
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
Well, Brian, I could claim that Pat Robertson is just practicing taqiyya and is secretly a Muslim. To rely on that as an argument is silly. Taqiyya is given far more play in non-Muslim polemics than it has in Muslim discourse and even there it is mostly seen in Shi'a works. I need not remind you that the vast majority of Muslims are Sunni.I have been accused of taqiyya myself by certain visitors to this website, the ones who more usually frequent LGF. That is how they explain away the fact that I make Islam sound good, or at least reasonable, in order to keep up their belief that Islam is evil. To them, I must be concealing my true, terroristic, beliefs.
I am not interested in speculation over who is lying about what.
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
I got to post that it is no wonder people satire christians, as their religion has so many false teachings concerning Christ. It is pathetic.Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
I think this is a very interesting question-- we've been debating a similar one over at Noli Irritare Leones:link
The question asked is addressed to Christians: if Jesus came back to Earth today (for rhetorical purposes, it's undeniably him) and said, "Hey, that whole New Testament stuff is wrong. I am a devout Jew, and you should practice strict Judaism as taught during my lifetime," would you still consider yourself a Christian? Why or why not?
My reply was no, I would not. I don't understand Jesus as a devout Jew, so methinks I'd have to reconsider my religion.
So, if I could be so bold, I pose the same question to my Muslim friends: if Muhammed were, through some odd medium, to return to Earth today and repudiate all non-Koranic Islam, declare the Hadith the work of heretics and the various scholarly traditions of Islam null and void, would you still believe the way you do now?
These questions are, of course, absurd, but interesting to think about in light of one's own faith, methinks.
note: comment edited to add hyperlink
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
Well, given that many Christians believe that Jesus will come back, the question of what he'll say at that time and what Christians might do if what he says doesn't match up with their beliefs is more than just academic (at least for those Christians who believe in the Second Coming). This differs from the equivalent question asked for other religions, which don't see their founders as coming back. I think that's an important point to remember.The Quran itself is clear that Muslims are to obey both God and His messenger and that the Prophet (pbuh) will explain the meaning of the Quran. This is why Muslims believe it's obligatory to follow the Sunna. The hadiths are a textual source from which one can derive the Sunna but they aren't the same as it. There are other potential sources of the Sunna, some of which have been favored by various different groups. The methodology of the hadith collections was to include all possible material, with their notes on its authenticity, so that other scholars would be able to make their own determinations of what the Sunna is. About 99% of the criticism made of the hadith is completely ignorant of the actual role of the hadiths in Islamic jurisprudence and of the methodology followed by the scholars in collecting and analyzing the hadiths. As such, it usually misses the mark, often widely. I've discussed some of these questions here.
The scholars have always been clear that the authority of the hadiths is dependent on their authenticity and that their own work of analysis and interpretation is susceptible to human error. Pretty much every major scholar has been quoted as saying that in the event of a conflict between the clear teachings of the Quran and Sunna and their own opinion, Muslims should follow the Quran and Sunna and leave the opinions of the scholars alone. I've just finished reading a 500+ page book about the principles of Islamic jurisprudence, which discusses these issues in depth.
I understand that Jeremy's question was meant in a light-hearted manner, as was my original question to Christians. But I think that it will be helpful to people to understand the way that these questions are examined and discussed in the Islamic context, which is not necessarily the same as the way that they're examined and discussed in the Christian context.
In any case, it should be clear that the living authority of the Prophet (pbuh) would take precedence over what has only been reported through a chain of authorities from the Prophet (the hadiths) and over the work of the scholars.
Another interesting question is how much of the corpus of hadiths and scholarly interpretations could be invalidated without contradicting the Quran. There are places where certain hadiths and certain opinions seem to diverge from the clear reading of the Quran, but in almost all cases one can find a scholar or even a school of scholars arguing against those hadiths or those interpretations for that very reason. Islam is not a monolith. Almost every interpretation or method of interpretation that you can think of has been favored by some scholar or school. I'm not sure that you could find something that contradicted all those views unless is also contradicted the Quran.
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
Thank you for taking to time to write about the relationship between Islam and Christianity and Judaism.However, I would wish to pose a couple of questions for you. Why does the Koran incorrectly refer to the Trinity as the Father, Son and Mary? If God gave the Koranic texts directly to Muhammed, then how could He have screwed that up?
Also, Jesus claimed to be more than a prophet. Either he was a liar or his followers who wrote the four Gospels are all liars, or at the very least seriously have obfuscated their meaning of Christ. Which is it? In either case, that would not explain Islam's supposed tolerance of Christianity, if it is that badly tainted by a fundamental lie.
There are many more questions, but I don't see how you can swallow the Koran without having to seriously delude yourself about the truths they claim about themselves.
Subject: Re: Jesus, a prophet of Islam
The Quran does not claim that the Trinity consists of God, Jesus, and Mary or identify these three as the Trinity. What it does is criticize people who worship these three, as I'm sure you would do yourself. In other places, it criticizes other incorrect beliefs that people have, including worshiping Ezra, angels, spirit entities (jinn), goddesses, idols, Jesus by himself or along with God, and indeed anything other than worship of God alone.I am rather surprised that you go to other peoples' blogs and accuse them of being deluded. I hope you will show better manners in the future. Have a nice day.