veiled4allah: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan veiled4allah: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Yet the former commander and 13-year veteran of the Army's top-secret Delta Force is also an outspoken evangelical Christian who appeared in dress uniform and polished jump boots before a religious group in Oregon in June to declare that radical Islamists hated the United States "because we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christian ... and the enemy is a guy named Satan." Discussing the battle against a Muslim warlord in Somalia, Boykin told another audience, "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."MSNBC has more on that last statement:
"We in the army of God, in the house of God, kingdom of God have been raised for such a time as this," Boykin said last year.
On at least one occasion, in Sandy, Ore., in June, Boykin said of President Bush: "He's in the White House because God put him there."
Boykin also routinely tells audiences that God, not the voters, chose President Bush: "Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that he’s in the White House because God put him there for a time such as this."
Asked about this Thursday, Rumsfeld told reporters he had not seen the videos and did not know the "full context" of Boykin's remarks. But the secretary did say, "We do know that he is an officer that has an outstanding record in the United States armed forces." President Bush has often said the view of the administration is that the United States is in a war against terrorism, "not a war against a religion," Rumsfeld said, but rather a war against people who "have tried to hijack a religion."Added: CAIR wants Boykin to be reassigned:
"There are a lot of things that are said by people that are their views," he said, "and that's the way we live. We are free people and that's the wonderful thing about our country, and I think for anyone to run around and think that can be managed or controlled is probably wrong."
"Putting a man with such extremist views in a critical policy-making position sends entirely the wrong message to a Muslim world that is already skeptical about America’s motives and intentions," said CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad. "Everyone is entitled to their own religious beliefs, no matter how ill-informed or bigoted, but those beliefs should not be allowed to color important decisions that need to be made in the war on terrorism. General Boykin should be reassigned to a position in which he will not be able to harm our nation’s image or interests." Awad said Muslims worship the same God as Christians and Jews. He noted that Arabic language Bibles use the word "Allah" when referring to God and quoted the Quran, which states: "Say ye: 'We believe in God and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one and another of them and it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves.'" (Quran, 2:136)Note: Original L.A. Times story republished here.
"We call on Americans of all faiths to reject any attempts to turn the war on terrorism into a religious crusade. President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld should also take this opportunity to further distance themselves from those who actively promote the clash of civilizations and religions," said Awad.
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Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
This jump-booted bigot should be canned, right now. How can we expect that Muslims serving in the military under this crank can get a fair shake?Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has problems with other non-Christian religions too. He has a right to his own beliefs of course, but I have to wonder if he really has a good enough understanding of things to be qualified for his position.Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Bet you didn't expect me to say this, but you may have pointed out a valid issue of concern. The nature of covert operations often requires cooperation of reatively-less-noxious, moderately-murderous thugs in order to apprehend or eliminate the big fish. In that light, Boykin's strong convictions might, in theory, prove to be disadvantageous.Then again, they might not. Moral clarity may be a double-edged sword sometimes, but it's far more preferrable to cynicism or PC blindness.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
We've reached a sad state of affairs, when religious sociopathy and "moral clarity" can be posed as equivalencies.Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
If George Bush was sent by Almighty God then why has Bush donenothing to bring Project MK Naomi and the planned genocide of the
entire continent of Africa via the World Health Organization to the
attention of the mainstream media? I think it's a universal contention of Christianity, Islam and Judaism that God delites in the sanctity of life and not the destruction of it.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
I'm almost certainly wasting my breath, but two points:-US Military's objective is not to give Muslims "a fair shake" (whatever that may mean). Its objective is to protect the United States.
-I despise religious fanaticism of any kind. However: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men (and yes, "jump-booted bigots") stand ready to do violence on their behalf." (George Orwell.)
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Hasn't it occurred to you that there is a such thing as military careers? People depend on fair play or at least the illusion of such to advance that career. Yet, General Jump Boots has shown himself to be biased against Muslims. But then, so have you, so of course you'll come rushing to his defense.Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
As I expected, you miss the point entirely. Advancement of military career is not an inalienable right. It is subordinate (or should be) to the interests of homeland defense.Once again: people (including you) are able to sleep peacefully at night because rough men like Gen. Boynik stand ready to visit violence (and worse, bigotry) on those who would do us harm.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Darulharb, I think I'll call you d-u-h, for short. Think of it as a pet name.Where I say advancement of a military career is an inalieable right? Also, I'd advise you not to presume anything about the sleep patterns of "people like me", whatever that means. Boykin and his ilk are precisely they type doing "us" harm. Or isn't all Americans included in "us"?
Guess not, if "us" is anyone but jackbooted dirtrags, spouting fundo Christian rhetoric.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
And regarding "bigotry":LAtimes: In his public remarks, Boykin has also said that radical Muslims who resort to terrorism are not representative of the Islamic faith.
He has compared Islamic extremists to "hooded Christians" who terrorized blacks, Catholics, Jews and others from beneath the robes of the Ku Klux Klan.
Sounds not like bigotry, but exactly like the most Dept. of Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice-approved PC line.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Say, d-u-h,All the white Christians I know would never in a million years count the KKK as fellow travellers.
In this light, that quote you chose to reproduce is very interesting.
And for heaven's sake, sweetie, it's 2003. These days, only rightwing paranoiacs are still cowering like martyrs from the big bad PC menace; their own invention, I might add.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
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Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Would anybody care to address Boykin's beliefs that the real enemy is Satan, or that even though Bush didn't get the most votes in 2000, he should be president because God wants him to be there? This guy seems to have a rather strange idea of how the American electoral system works. Although Laura J chose to address the issue of Boykin's views about Muslims, there are larger questions about Boykin and that was what I meant by referring to his "understanding of the situation".Also, is Boykin the only person who can do this particular job, or can we find someone else to do it who can be relied on to treat his colleagues and subordinates with respect? If we have to put up with Boykin's bizarre views and bigotry because that's the best we can do, I think we've got a problem. Reassign Boykin and replace him with somebody who isn't a religious wacko. There should be no problem with that.
Oh and Ken, my post cited both MSNBC and CNN. Or do you consider those sources to be biased too?
If anybody has anything that is actually useful or intelligent to say, I'll be glad to hear it. But I won't hold my breath waiting for it from this crowd.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Al-M, I would love to address this issue.This is the rhetoric of one of the more paranoid factions of rightwing Christianity, who historically take their cues from a Manichean angle on morals and ethics. Mani, as many know, was a sort of post-Zoroastrian Persian prophet, who incorporated the good-vs-evil ethic of Zoroastrianism with the new (at the time) ethic of Christianity, complete with a specific demonology and angel-ology, if that is a word. Some of them even study extra-biblical contemporaneous texts which contribute to this extraterrestrial beliefs, such as the Pseudepigrapha. For a lot of these individuals, ANYTHING that isn't their own, specific brand of Christianity is interpreted as not simply the work of Satan, but Satan incarnate. Sometimes, they will substitute the word "cult" for traditions they see in this light, which may or may not (depending on what axes are being ground) include Roman Catholicism, the myriad threads of Orthodoxy; Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, Christian Science, Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Confucianism, Shinto, and they have an almost natural aversion to humanism, athieism, agnosticism, and any other form of secularism. All of this, to them, equals Satan.
This is, in the opinion of many including myself, a direct and perhaps deliberate misreading of the Satan character, who is in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament millieu is the Advocate (or anti-Advocate).
Right now, the most visible and easiest target is any form of Islam, which is of course collapsed into one heaping lump, for quick reference.
And above all, their primary motive is to convert. From any or all of these traditions to their own narrow system of belief.
Their key scriptural reference is Ephesians 6:12 from the New Testament, and they will quote it early and often: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." So they honestly view themselves as a sort of vanguard, protecting all of mankind against what the see to be our gravest threats.
It's quite militaristic (which is why I entitled my own entry on this topic as "the Blood-stained Banner") and is expressed in terms of warfare, which is one reason why Boykin's statements, from his particular position, are cause for alarm. People who engage in this so-called "spiritual warfare" (their term) are called "prayer warriors", and they will often actively choose an issue, whether local or global, to "pray for". In certain denominations, they are also known as "intercessors", that is, those who pray so fervently as to affect the course of human events. They really believe that their prayers have such power.
For most of us, who are at least making the attempt to be open-minded and normal people, we might say ok, they have a right to their beliefs, which is absolutely true.
But the unfortunate fact is that we are dealing with an entire generation of people who are the products of a politically mobilized form of these beliefs. Boykin is one rather noxious example, that i believe we may be seeing more of in the future.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Thanks for sharing your perpsective on this. I agree with you. Some people seem to think that Islamic fundamentalism is somehow a unique phenomenon, but it is not. It is very similar to fundamentalism in other religions including Jewish, Christian, and Hindu. Karen Armstrong analyzes this in her book "The Battle for God". The differences among these groups, such as they exist, tend to be because of the circumstances they find themselves in. Muslim fundamentalists are in countries dealing with colonialism and its aftermath as well as the socio-economic dislocations that every developing nation faces. Many of them suffer under brutal (secular) dictatorships. By contrast, Christian fundamentalists in America are citizens of the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world and face little or no persecution for their religious activism. With all these advantages, the surprise would be if they were not less extreme than their counterparts in other religions.Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
The sorriest part is that these are people who honestly believe that because people argue with their POV or that they don't have 100% of their fellow country persons on-board, they are being persecuted. Even though none of them have ever been killed for their belifs, they concieve of themselves as martyrs, a-la 2nd century Rome.Paranoia, big destroy-a.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
radical Islamists hated the United States "because we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christian ...You'd think than that the Vatican would be target #1, right?
"and the enemy is a guy named Satan."
Wow. I'm relieved. For a second there, I read that as Santa.
Does this man belong in the position that he is in right now? Should anyone who thinks that this is a religious war be in this position? If an orthodox Muslim would be in this position, Daniel Pipes would be all over this. His comments are contradicting. If he thinks this is a war between religions, and racial Muslims aren't "representative of the Islamic faith" than what religion are we fighting against? Buddhism? Judaism? Satanists?
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
("His" in the last sentence refers to Boykin, not Pipes.)Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Okay, now I'm not just pissed because he called Allah "an idol" but now Boykin is in violation of Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which says that anyone on active duty cannot make "contemptuous" statements against the President.He's also in violation of Department of Defense directive 1344.10 which says that an active duty military member may not make partisan political speeches.
Or Chapter 2 of the CGSC Hanbook, "The Leader and Leadership: What the Leader Must Be, Know, and Do;" section on "Character and Beliefs" (2.100-2.103), which says: "(N)o leader may apply undue influence or coerce others in matters of religion—whether to practice or not to practice specific religious beliefs."
Or Army Regulation 670-1, which prohibits a soldier from wearing army uniforms “when participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or public demonstrations, except as authorized by competent authority.”
And if I wasn't hungry for some Taco Bell, I could probably find some more if you're not satisfied.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
One word: Mafdal.Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Is Mafdal the model for the national service idea you had mentioned previously? There definitely needs to be some kind of dialogue and learning to bring people together instead of driving them apart.Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
No, Mafdal is what happens when you mix nationalist and religious imperatives in the way General Boykin is doing. It's not a pretty picture.Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Got it. I couldn't quite figure out what you meant by posting that link since I wouldn't have said myself that it seemed an entirely positive model, but I noticed some mentions of bringing people from different backgrounds together so I took a wild guess.I'll now retire from the field of wild guessing...
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
Sorry; sometimes I tend to assume that everyone's familiar with the ins and outs of the Israeli right wing.At any rate, the reason I brought up Mafdal was to counter the analogy between Boykin's views and political Islam. Boykin gets his opinion from two places - messianic religion and nationalism. Radical Islamic politics has the messianic part down, but it tends to be the antithesis of nationalism, given that its ideal is loyalty to the ummah rather than to a particular state. Boykin, on the other hand, sees the divine will as aligned with the interests of one particular country.
The closest modern analogue I can think of is the Israeli far right - or, more specifically, the "national religious" wing of the far right as manifested in Mafdal. Franco's clerical-fascist regime in Spain might also be a model. Like I said, not a pretty picture.
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
(I've posted this at TalkLeft and The Right Christians but the link to the historical info is important.)Boykin's comments show the nature of the problem facing liberal Christianity and America's left in general: the conflation of the Deists and Unitarian and Enlightenment Christians who disporportionatly carried out the American Revolution and the Biblicist Fundamentalist Evangelicalism of today. This is being done for political reasons, as well as religious aggression. I can't help but think Franklin, Adams, and certainly Jefferson would be appalled by General Boykin's ignorant condemnation of Islam.
And of course, there is that 1796 treaty with the Bey of Tripoli that John Adams signed, and the senate ratified,that says "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen"(or Moslems, as we now say)" and as the said States never have entered into any war of act of hostility against any Mehomitan"(you can translate)" nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from the religious opinions shall ever produce an interrruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
(see http://early america.com/review/summer97/secular.html)
I'm told that this treaty's wording is not uncontroversial, but I wonder how the General would see this assertion?
And I have to add that a local (Tocca, GA) Christian (in the pickwickian sense, of course) Radio station was urging it's listeners this morning to enroll in the Global war against Islam by "contacting your senators and congressman to urge passage of the President's full $87 B package for Iraq...." Do you think that the Administration should be made to make clear again that this is not a war on Moslems? Or will they get a pass on this from the embedded media?
Subject: Re: DoD undersecretary says our real enemy is Satan
General Boykin is a true combat hero who has spent the better part of the past 25 years personally fighting the war which America has been fighting since at least the time of the hostage taking in Tehran in 1979. On 9/11 the scale of this war escalated, bringing a back burner event into the forefront of the national consciousness. General Boykin has been on the front lines of every major engagement, from the failed hostage rescue attempt in 1979, leading the famed Black Hawk Down raid in Mogadishu, Somalia in 1993 and now he has received his third star and is leading the intelligence effort in the Pentagon to hunt down and find Osama Bin Laden and his ilk.General Boykin is also a devout Christian and his 25 years of experience in this war has led him to the belief that Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and the rest of the temporal players in this war are merely the physical manifestation of a larger spiritual battle discussed in scripture. A battle to which every Christian is called and in shoring up support for that call General Boykin went to churches and prayer meetings asking his fellow Christians to do their part in the spiritual battle while soldiers fight the physical battles. They can do their part as we all can - by keeping the soldiers, our president and each other in our prayers.
He spoke in terms common to fundamental Christianity. A journalist from the LA Times made his way into one of these prayer meetings with intent only he knows in his heart. While Gen. Boykin’s fellow Christians may have left those meetings with a greater understanding of the true nature of the threat we all (Christians, Jews, Muslims and atheists alike) face from this nefarious enemy, this reporter left instead with notes he had taken of the Generals talk.
Instead of releasing these notes, or possibly making a transcript of his full speech available, as they obviously have videos provided by the churches in question to play on the evening news from which transcripts could be taken if they so chose, this reporter chooses to only release the most incendiary quotes he can find. Surely a journalist is well acquainted with the Constitutional provisions of freedom of speech and freedom of worship. They will surely invoke those freedoms when they refuse to release a source who may provide information in this war - in the name of freedom of the press. They understand freedom of speech when one wishes to burn an American flag so I don't believe they do not understand that the General has every right to speak and worship without governmental molestation. What can be gained by releasing these inflammatory quotes out of context other than inflaming the moderate Muslims whom the Bush administration has been trying to woo to our side in this fight on behalf of freedom loving people everywhere of all religions and races. I don't dispute this journalist’s right to write what he pleases - I certainly question his methods and motivations.
Many Congressmen and Senators have called for General Boykin, a public official, to be removed for his views. A brief quote from Representative Conyer in a letter demanding the Generals resignation or removal to the Bush administration:
"I am writing to express my extreme displeasure over Lieutenant General William Boykin's remarks about the war and the Muslim religion. Lt. Gen. Boykin serves as deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence and is charged with heading a Pentagon office that focuses on finding Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and other targets. This is a critical policymaking position, and it is outrageous that someone who holds such extreme, closed-minded, zealous views would be allowed such a prominent position in our military."
I would like to bring to the Congressman's attention Article VI, Section III of the US Constitution, a possibly-soon-to-be-forgotten relic of American history if positions such as this Congressman’s are allowed to remain unchallenged:
3. The senators and representatives before-mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
Representative Conyers’ advocating of the Generals removal from the office or public trust of his position in the Pentagon is most definitively a religious test. Read again his objections to the General - is it his ability to perform his job? - no, it is his religious views and the audacity he has shown in speaking them - in a Church, of all places, - that draws his ire.
The most vocal advocates of removing General Boykin are the most liberal members of our government, most of whom are avowed separationists and should be familiar with the letter of Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists in which the famous phrase "separation of Church and State" is found:
"Believing ... that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."
-- Thomas Jefferson to Danbury Baptists, 1802
Just in case the limitation of government to reach actions only; and not opinions, is a distinction that the Congressman in question and his supporters fail to make, I'll quote Justice Fields as he elaborates on this same letter in Reynolds v US in 1878:
"Coming as this [Jefferson's letter] does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured. Congress was deprived of all legislative power over mere opinion, but was left free to reach actions which were in violation of social duties or subversive of good order."
Notice please, Mr. Conyer, that Congress (psst...that means you Congressman) was deprived of power over mere opinion, regardless of how extreme, closed-minded, or even (gasp!) zealous (can you imagine a zealous religious person in office?) they might be.
As Americans we need to stand behind General Boykin, a true American hero who has carried the banner against terrorism allowing the rest of America for the most part to rest safely in their beds for the past 25 years while this war has been ongoing and fought by men such as he. What we do not need to do is to sacrifice this good man on the altar of political correctness.
We can and should take this opportunity to demonstrate to the world, including the Muslim community here at home and abroad, that when we claim the United States of America as a bastion of freedom to worship as the individual conscience sees fit, we mean it and our government does not try to ruin the career of a good man for the perceived crime of being "zealous" - I would submit that this country would be much better off if we had many more zealots who would stand up for their beliefs as General Boykin has. Whether we agree or disagree with his beliefs we should stand shoulder to shoulder with him in his fight to hold them.
God Bless America and the World.