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Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
I don't have time for a lengthly response, but I'll share a few of my thoughts quickly, inshallah.I think that education is one of the most important priorities that a society should have. I also think that we are getting to a point where at least some post-secondary education such as a professional or technical certificate is necessary, and two and four year degrees are also becoming important. People who do not have access to this level of education will find it very difficult to get jobs that will move them out of poverty.
I am in favor of this proposal, but I think that we also need to rebuild our existing "education infrastructure". Without a good foundation in the primary and secondary levels, children will be unable to take full advantage of college education, even if it is paid for.
Finally, just to answer the question as written, the impact on my own life would be minimal, since I have long since completed college and since I don't have children at the current time.
Ken, you may fire when ready
Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
Heh. Well some of my objections from the previous topic apply here. However, if you're only talking about "some" post secondary education (including at a community college), then the economic impact is likely to be negligable. Actually, given the low cost of a community college and the huge number of scholarships which so unclaimed for lack of applicants each year, it's pretty much universal (if complicated) already.
All things considered, I doubt there would be any impact on my life. I have to disagree with the idea that college education is always necessary, though. I work in software development (and have screened resumes and interviewed job applicants), and it just doesn't matter in this field. Knowledge and experience are what we care about.
With that in mind, I'd say that going to college was one of the worst mistakes of my life. I spent four years there (I didn't get a degree), and during that time I learned nothing of any use in getting or performing a job. If I'd started looking for work instead of college, I'd be making at least $5,000/year more than I am now, and have considerably more seniority.
That's not to say that nobody needs college--you haven't got any choice but to go if you want to be a lawyer, for example. But keep in mind that for some professions college is unnecessary or even counterproductive.
Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
The impact on my life would be minimal since I am close to finishing my degree and probably won't stay for a further oneI am against universal college education. I believe that we should focus more on K-12 and fix the many problems we have there instead of making college education available to everyone.
Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
If those problems were fixed, would you still be opposed to universal college education? That is, do you object to it in itself, or do you just think it's not the best use of our resources at the current time? I had noted that concern myself.Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
I think right now the resource problem is the bigger one. But even otherwise I think not everyone needs to or should go to college. On the other hand, lack of money should not be the only reason someone couldn't get into college. That however does not mean that everyone who finishes high school should get financial aid for college. I prefer a system of loans and work opportunities along with some merit-based financial aid while restricting college to some standard of entry.Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
For me, college gave me the time & opportunity to sort through some of the difficult personal issues many of us face as we come of age in this society. I think my life would be a very different place if I hadn't had this chance, but not necessarily in an economic sense.I was the first woman in my family to graduate (or even attend) college. My mother didn't have the same choices available to her, growing up in rural Idaho in the '50's. Higher education is a luxury in this country, as such, it tends to be taken more seriously by those who have not had the same economic opportunities in the past.
My college degree may have opened a few doors to employment when I first graduated, but those jobs were not going to alter my economic status. I saw the middle-aged women who worked in the offices with me as a confirmation of the glass ceiling that still exists in many corporate environments. The cubicles were filled with women & people of non-European descent, many quite happy to have the jobs they did, but the corner offices were always filled by white males (sometimes the only ones who worked on the entire floor).
I don't think that education alone is going to level the playing field in this country, but I think that making the opportunity available to as many people as possible will result in a more conscious & dynamic democracy, & a stronger working class.
Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
Shannon, thanks for sharing your experiences. That's what this dialogue is all aboutSubject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
I think that college education should be paid for by the student. The state should subsidize the cost to some degree, which it does for many state schools, so that the price isn't so horrendous. When I went to college, I always found that the people who had to pay a large chunk of their own tuition took it more seriously than those whose parents paid for them.Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
What about people who couldn't afford to go to college without some kind of financial aid? I mean, the idea here is to provide these people with an opportunity for higher education that they would not otherwise have.My dad worked his way through college, but he and my mom had planned for a long time that my sister and I would not have to. They often have told us that the money they invested in our education was our inheritance paid to us early. There's a saying, give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him how to catch fish, and he can eat for the rest of his life. My parents believe that they and we would get far more return on the money if it was invested in a first-rate education than if we just got cash later on.
Coming from this background, I just can't agree with you that students should have to be self-sufficient in college.
Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
Just out of curiousity, I did a little research. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there were 15.3 million students in degree-granting institutions in the year 2000. Tuition at the community college I attended was about $2100 for three quarters (the regular school year). Tuition at the University of Washington is about $5000 a year for residents.It would take about $76 billion to pay the full tuition of those 15.3 million students. If we repealed the Bush tax cuts (~$330 billion), that would allow some 60 million people to go to college for free.
For comparison, the census reports that a total of 53.4 million students were enrolled in K-12 this last year.
So this proposal isn't as expensive as it sounds. It's not about turning all colleges and universities into public institutions so that the government has to pay all the costs of them; it's more like vouchers.
To me, it's a relatively small thing that could make a big difference for people.
Subject: Re: Imagine the America you want to live in #7
I applaud the effort to find data to support your ideal, unfortunately, you'll have to look a little farther. The economy of scale isn't adjusted for all to attend college, nor does the tuition charged at public institutions cover the cost of the education, the tax paying citizens pay a large amount in advance of the tuition payment.What is truly surprising to me, is that anyone would suggest this. At a time when public schools (k-12) are strongly moving towards choice and private/public sector blending, as that is the only reason higher education is considered a success (not due to the necessity or quality of it's by product), it seems to me to be solution seeking a problem rather than the other way around.
Additionally, the tax cuts, while currently temporary, will be made permanent in order to provide the stability in planning needed by families and businesses alike for future budgeting. This in turn will give much greater returns to the government as it will fuel growth in the GNP and higher tax revenues with lower base rates.
Have a great day!
just_us