I do not think God placed us on earth as his vice-regent solely to ensure men have beards, women wear "burqas," and music is banned. God made us His representative so that life, religion, lineage, intellect, and property be protected. Furthermore, Islam demands that the "forest" always be seen for "the trees." For example, Caliph Omar (God be pleased with him) suspended the punishment for theft during a time of extreme famine, because it is not just for the government to punish someone for theft out of want when the government can not provide for its citizens. If Islamic law is established in a community that lacks clean water, then I believe the Shari'ah would demand that clean water facilities be established as the first priority, not ensuring Muslim men have beards of appropriate length. The gross misapplication of Shari'ah by some Muslims has led to its mischaracterization as a backward, barbaric system of government. This has done an enormous disservice to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.Elsewhere in the article, Hassaballa criticizes some rather notorious misapplications of the Shari'a:
Let us take the Taliban as an example. Whilst they were in power, "religious policemen" made sure men wore beards of a certain length, women were covered head-to-toe, and no one laughed in public, all in the name of "establishing God's law." Yet, women and girls were barred from working or going to school. Is this not an affront to God's law? Does this not violate the principle of protection of the intellect? Is not equality of men and women an essential aspect of Islamic law? In Saudi Arabia, another country that espouses "Islamic law," there is also a "religious police" to ensure Saudis follow Islamic law. In fact, 15 schoolgirls died in a school fire in Mecca in March 2002 because, according to Civil Defense workers, members of the "religious police" barred the girls from exiting because they were not properly dressed. Is not the preservation of life one of the utmost principles of Islamic law? Did not the Qur'an state that is someone saves a life, it is as if they have saved the lives of all of humanity (5:32)?Hassaballa hits the nail on the head. In the first passage I quoted, he lists "life, religion, lineage, intellect, and property" as the things that the Shari'a must protect above all. These five are known as daruriyyat, the essential needs of life, and their protection is a matter of absolute priority for an Islamic state. A state that fails to protect these needs is a state that has failed its duty.
In Nigeria, a woman was condemned to death by stoning for adultery. This was despite the fact that she was not married at the time of the alleged sexual encounter, and thus, the punishment of stoning does not even apply. She received this sentence despite the fact that many Islamic scholars do not even accept pregnancy as a high enough burden of proof of sex out of wedlock. She was sentenced to death despite the fact that there were not enough witnesses to the alleged sexual encounter as required by Islamic law: the man in the case was released due to "lack of evidence." Is not due process an essential component of Islamic law?
Those who neglect acquiring mastery of the maqasid do so to their own peril as it would make them liable to error in ijtihad [striving to find the correct answer]. Included among these were the proponents of pernicious innovation (ahl al-bid'ah) who only looked at the apparent text of the Qur'an without pondering over its objective and meaning. These innovators (an allusion to the Kharijites) held on to the intricate segments of the Qur'an (almutashabihat) and premised their conclusions on them. They took a fragmented and atomistic approach to the reading of the Qur'an which failed to tie up the relevant parts of the texts together. The leading ulama have, on the other hand, viewed the Shari'ah as a unity in which the detailed rules should be read in the light of their broader premises and objectives.How can there be a true Islamic state if the way that its laws are implemented contradicts the most basic principles of the Shari'a? When Islamic law is implemented, it must be implemented RIGHT.
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Subject: Re: starting with what's essential
"When Islamic law is implemented, it must be implemented RIGHT"To many people this would seem like a catch-22 situation. How do you do it right? With no practical historical examples that can be applied to our 21st-century reality, how do we actually go about it??
Instinctively we know that what the Taliban did was unnatural and wrong, but where is our doctrine, our ideology that tells us how to run a state? How do we support an Islamic state while holding on to our liberties, or do we have to come to terms with losing those liberties?
I'm sure that the answers are coming.
Subject: Re: starting with what\'s essential
This is a topic I've been exploring on my blog for some time. You're right, there don't seem to be any examples out there today, just a bunch of misapplications. But for me, it's worth the effort of trying.Subject: Re: starting with what\'s essential
I'm just wondering how well laws written over a millenium ago will translate into the modern world.I'm all for people practicing their religion as they see fit - I just don't think a state should be in charge of deciding what is or isn't propper.
Ther are many ways to interpret the words of the Bible, the Torah, or the Quran - and that isn't even getting into other texts that have played parts in the forming of those religions. If an islamic state formed, would it be Shi'ite? Sunni? Wahabi? What would the situation of the members of the other sects in that country? (the same argument works for Catholics/Protestents, and Orthodox and non-Orthodox Jews, of course).
Religion, organized or not, is a very personal thing. If you try to enforce it on a national level, you'll be forcing the interpretations of, at best, a small group onto the population as a whole. Not a good way to do things.
Subject: Re: starting with what\\\'s essential
Oddly enough, Muslim countries got along just fine before the colonial era with law codes based on the Shari'a. An excellent book that provides the historical context is A History of the Arab People by Albert Hourani.Here's a post in which I discuss how the Islamic penal code can be quite flexible, leaving it up to the discretion of judges or to society in general to determine the appropriate system of punishments for all but the most serious crimes.
Here's an overview of my writings on the issue of individual rights and freedom of choice.
Here's an article that looks at dissent and differences of opinion. You may find reading the comments section helpful as well.
On a related note, see Developing the institutions of liberty in Muslim countries and Islamic principles of limited government.
Joe, you're making the same misassumption as the Islamist groups are, assuming that the state enforces everything. I hope that the links I've provided make it clear that this does not have to be (and should not be) the case. First, and most important, the law only takes action against things that harm others (i.e., crimes) not things that harm only the self (i.e., sins). Second, in the areas where the law does reach, it is somewhat akin to the Constitution. It sets out general principles and a few fixed rules that must be followed, but leaves a great deal of room for the discretion of individuals. Related to this is the important concept of shura or consultation.
As I said to Arab Street Bum, this is an issue that I have written on extensively and that I am always continuing to research. I believe that within the Islamic tradition itself there already exist the rules and guidelines that can help Muslims build a society that is both Islamic and free at the same time. The Islamic legal tradition is very rich and it is sad to see so many Muslim groups are failing to turn to it.
Two more asides. First, Wahhabis are a subset of Sunni Islam. See here for more details on the different movements within Sunni Islam. Second, even between Sunnis and Shi'ites, there is a broad consensus on Islamic practice and law. The differences between the two groups are primarily theological or in the exact details of how things should be implemented. As I pointed out above, this is beyond where the law of the state would reach.
Subject: Re: starting with what\'s essential
So, by Islamic state, you're suggesting something more like Israel, as opposed to, say, Iran.I could see something like that working. I guess that, with all the (deservedly) negative press that the recent attempts at Islamic governments get, I just assumed you meant something similar.
I did know that Wahabi-ism is an offshot of the Sunni traditions, but with it's roll in the militantism in Saudi Arabia, I figured it deserves to be singled out (as extremist sects of Christianity or any other religion should be).
As long as the personal rules of a religion (the length of a man's beard being an example of Taliban law) are not enforced by the government, I don't have a problem with the idea of a state founded with a religious...background, for lack of a better word. It's when the line blurs that I'm worried about.
Subject: Re: starting with what\\\'s essential
"Islamic state" is a term so broad and vague, how could it possibly have one fixed meaning?I get the same problem with some of my visitors when I use the word "Shari'a". They assume that by "Shari'a" I mean "Saudi Arabia" or "Afghanistan". Shari'a is a term that is equivalent in some ways to "common law". I could hardly talk about the Anglo-American legal system without using the phrase "common law" and it is impossible to talk about the Islamic legal system without using the word "Shari'a".
I try as much as possible to explain what I mean, but I can't write an entire book every time I post just to fill in the backstory. That's part of the reason why I have so many links on every page, to try and help people find more information and fill in what I don't have the time to explain every time I post.
I'm not frustrated at you but at whoever is responsible for perverting the basic terms of Islamic discourse so that I can't use them without people assuming that I'm a raving fundamentalist.
Subject: Re: starting with what\'s essential
Oh, I never thought you were a raving fundamentalist. Heck, you read my blog...I think that'd make the average fundeamentalist's brain melt.I understand your frustration, tho. Liberals in America are dealing with something similar...the bad examples set by a few of the extremists being applied to the group as a whole as a way to vilify them.
So, basically, I'm sorry that I spoke too soon on the whole "Islamic state" thing. I tend to read and react to things very quickly, so I don't think I let the point you were making stew long enough..I just thought Islamic state = state using Islamic law = potential Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan.
Subject: Re: starting with what\\\'s essential
Well, I do mean "state using Islamic law", I just have a different idea of what Islamic law is than fundamentalists do. The way I see it, Islam sets out rules for how people should live their lives. Some of these rules are purely personal and voluntary, such as how and when to pray. Some of these rules are meant to be established as laws, such as "do not murder" or "do not steal". I think we can all agree that activities that cause harm to others, such as murder or theft, should not be allowed.The problem with the regimes like Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc, is that in addition to creating laws banning murder, theft, and other activities that are harmful to others, they also create laws regulating behavior that doesn't harm others; usually they want to enforce a certain level of religious observance on everybody.
"Islamic law" is kind of an ambiguous term in English. The Arabic term "Shari'a" applies to the entire set of rules that I mentioned in the first paragraph. There is, however, a distinguishing between that set of rules and the statutory law code of a country. The term "Islamic law" does not make it clear which of these two entities is being referred to. I usually use the term synonymously with "Shari'a", as an English translation of it, but that may give the idea that I am talking about a statutory law code. Maybe there's some better way of phrasing things?
In any case, I believe that the example of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the early Islamic rulers shows that not all of the Shari'a was treated as a statutory law code, only those parts of it that dealt with harmful actions; I also have seen evidence that the scholars divided the rulings of the Shari'a into categories that reflect this difference. I discussed this in the post about individual freedom that I linked to earlier.
BTW, I've seen the way that liberals are demonized by some people and other ludicrous claims like that CalPundit is a member of the "hard left".
Subject: Re: starting with what\'s essential
Oh yeah. I'm a freaking commie by some standards of what the "hard left" is.The same people compare Michael Moore to Anne Coulter. Cause Moore regularly uses violent rehtoric like "The only regretable thing about McVeigh is that he didn't hit the Wall Street Journal building" and "If we weren't so wrapped up in the 'did he lie about WMD' argument, the only question about Bush would be impeach, or assassinate."
And then there's books like "Why Liberals Hate America" (Ron Marr), "Treason" (Anne Coulter), and "Let Freedom Ring: Winning the War of Liberty over Liberalism" (Sean Hannity)
(note: In case you aren't sure, Moore didn't say anything like that. On the contrary, Coulter said "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building." as well as "We have a national debate about whether Clinton 'did it,' even though all sentient people know he did...otherwise there would only be debates about whether to impeach or assassinate." She's about to publish Treason, her 3rd book)
Subject: Re: starting with what\\\'s essential
I was just reading in the comments section at Daily Kos that Coulter thinks Joe McCarthy wasn't such a bad sort.I had never heard of Ann Coulter before her infamous remark that in response to 9/11, America should "invade [Muslim] countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity". I wonder if she posts to LGF...
Update: Project for a New Century of Freedom has the goods on Coulter and McCarthy.
Subject: Re: starting with what\\\\\\\'s essential
Although it may surprise you to realize this, a sizeable portion, if not the majority of LGF posters have no respect for Coulter. She is the "right-wing" equivalent of Michael Moore -- or Dennis Kucinich, for that matter.Subject: Re: starting with what\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s essential
Good to hear that. I'm not overly fond of Michael Moore myself, but I have not yet heard his rhetoric go nearly as far as Coulter's does. As for Kucinich, I would like to see you quote one instance of him referring to people in a derogatory manner. C'mon, you can do better than gratuitous cheap shots like that. The problem with Coulter is the hateful and derogatory language she spews not her position on the political spectrum. Suggest you go back to that life you're so proud of having and stop wasting your time at my blog.Subject: Re: starting with what\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s essential
I hear the Moore/Coulter thing alot.It just doesn't fly. Moore is on par with Rush Limbaugh, sure....lots of volume and points that aren't regularly factual.
Coulter has suggested that women shouldn't vote (and, based on her reasoning, she probably feels the same way about blacks, since they vote overwhelmingly for Dems, too)...she's just written a book that tries to make a hero of Joseph McCarthy while calling all liberals traitors. She wanted the government to execute John Walker Lindh so that it would "show the liberals that they can be punished" or some crap like that.
Moore's out there...but he's no where near that far out there.
And some of the stuff I've seen at LGF when I do venture over there looks like it might make Coulter say "woah..that might be too harsh." But I'll take your word on the majority opinion, for now...
As for the Kucinich line, that's just crap. The guy doesn't spew violent rhetoric. He doesn't advocate the bombing of the Wall St Journal. He doesn't suggest that, if we weren't debating where the problem was with the WMD intel, we'd be debating wether to impeach or assassinate Bush. Hell, he hasn't even come close.
Lines like that are just "moral relativism"...something much of the right loves to accuse lefties of on lots of issues.
Subject: Re: starting with what\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s essential
The point of Coulter/Kucinich juxtaposition is that the former represents rabid belligerence (and yes, the occasional validity of her points is mostly obliterated by the manner of presentation), while the latter stands for an abject surrender. I don't find that position either more valid or more respectable than Coulter's.Subject: Re: starting with what\'s essential
Oh, Coulter is definetly one of the most frightening things going. She's out of her freaking mind.Hell, she thinks Cheney is freaking sexy. (Of course, some people think she's sexy...which is almost as scary). She's also advocated ending women's sufferage (because they mostly vote Democratic, of course).
I'm not sure how many people actually read her books - they mostly get bought in bulk by right wing organizations and sold off cheap on remaindered tables, so they could be balancing desks for all I know, or being mulched, or who knows. Just the fact that she can get published is amazing and scary to me.
Check out http://www.dailyhowler.com for some of the dirt on Anne's most outrageous lines.