veiled4allah: follow-up on Amina Lawal

sara said:

Total comments: 2

this information seems to have spread very well. Let's hope it is successful.

John said:

Total comments: 2

talking about yesterday and today, I also have some things I learned

there is also a lot of other implications in islamic law. if islamic law is taken a look at as a whole then that helps. There is also the rule of forgiveness the family can adopt if they choose if someone in their family
is murdered, other than the blood money or capital punishment options. and the Qur'an says forgiveness is better.

there is also no vigilantiism in Islam. no lone rangers who implement the law, because that can lead to anarchy. also for the islamic law punishment for adultery: there have to be 4 witnesses seeing the act of penetration. and it can't even be seeing 2 people, one on top of the other or under the bed sheets, but you actually have to see it. When does that ever happen? someone really has to have some gutso to get 4 witnesses. the 4 witnesses also have to be of high standing in the community for character and history. so no stranger can be witnesses obviously.

also they both can come and swear and have the curse of God upon them if they are lying, both the husband and the wife.

there are mutiple rules and things. it's very interesting. there is also lots of differentiation between scholars on some parts of the laws, while others are very clear and are not differed upon.

just listend to a hamza yusuf tape folks
that was not the topic but was along with a lecture of another topic.

Once it is explained as a whole instead of bits and pieces, and applied that way, it sounds much better.
asalamu alaykum(peace be upon you),
John

John said:

Total comments: 2

to add to what I said, I see the islamic laws as trying to tell the human being how bad the actions that are punishable are, and to also imply there consequences if the bad actions are allowed to run freely without check.

there are also 5 principles of (islamic law I think) that really have some interesting implications:
PRESERVATION OF:
1) religion
2) life
3) lineage
4) wealth
5) honor

and some really interesting rulings upon the sources then explanations can be arrived at.

asalamu alaykum, John

LauraJ said:

Total comments: 17

Al-M: Just got this. Here is another perspective, from BAOBAB for Women’s Human Rights, via Women Living Under Muslim Laws, via the al-Fatiha mailing list. They recommend against some letter campaigns and have provided some additional info about the Lawal case. Legnthy but worth one's time.

Suzzy said:

Total comments: 14

You don't think she should be stoned? You did before. What made you change your mind?

Cindy said:

Total comments: 63

Dang... I couldn't find the button to click to comment at first.

Anyway, that's interesting info that John posted. I didn't know the rules in Islam were like that.

I felt bad for that woman when I heard her story. Even if she did something wrong, I still feel bad about what she's going through.

Al-Munaqabah said:

Total comments: 996

Suzzy - Where did I say that? It certainly wasn't in my previous blog entry, which is the first time I remember writing about the subject. Could you provide a link to where you saw me say I supported it, to refresh my memory? As to why I hold the position I do, the original blog entry that I linked to should make it clear enough, I thought. The standards of proof must be met for the law to be applied. Whatever wrong she has done that the law cannot punish, Allah SWT will.

Reza said:

Total comments: 1

Hi , you have a interesting weblog …
I’m 17 years old Iranian boy , I have created a weblog which write there about Iran and my life there … I’ll be happy if you visit me ..

Al-Munaqabah said:

Total comments: 996

Cindy - Brother John has expressed things very well. These are the kinds of ideas I like to explore on my blog and learn more about

Reza - Thanks for visiting! I've added your blog to my blogroll. Keep up the good work

LauraJ - Thanks for posting that link. I'm glad to hear that BAOBAB feels the situation is not as bad as it has been depicted. Whenever there are stories like Amina's, a lot of Muslims hope it isn't really true or that it's not as bad as we hear, because we know that we'll be asked to explain/justify/apologize/condemn it and will be judged by it. But we can't proceed on the assumption that it isn't as bad as depicted, or we'll face what seems to be the favorite accusation to hurl at Muslims: that we're silent in the face of wrongdoing. So we take the stories on face value and try to present the truth of our religion in light of that. It's the same old game.

One other point I remember coming up in a discussion Cindy and I took part in at a discussion board (SV) that is mentioned in passing in the article is that it seems that Amina was divorced and not married at the time that this occurred. If she wasn't married, the punishment would be lashing, not death (the article says That there is no place in the trial record that stated that Amina was validly married and so in the absence of that, the Judgement was given on assumption).

It just seems like there are so many things wrong with the procedure here.

The other thing that gets me is that it takes two to make a baby so why are the women always being blamed alone? The law applies to men, too!

(Suzzy, the above is the only comment I remember making at SV or anywhere else about this case. Are you sure you didn't mis-read me? I am sure that I never spoke up in support of the stoning.)

Suzzy said:

Total comments: 14

Hmm, yeah I guess so. I must have mistook you from someone else.

LauraJ said:

Total comments: 17

Originally posted by Al-Munaqabah -

LauraJ - ...But we can't proceed on the assumption that it isn't as bad as depicted, or we'll face what seems to be the favorite accusation to hurl at Muslims: that we're silent in the face of wrongdoing. So we take the stories on face value and try to present the truth of our religion in light of that. It's the same old game.

Yes I see your point. I fact, this is the first thing I've seen on the Lawal case that takes this stance. To me it looks like one of those danged if you do/don't things, because the flipside is something the BAOBAB release said, that cases like this are held up as somehow represetative of ills of Islam, by the very folks that are supposedly on Ms. Lawal's side. It's aggravating.

John said:

Total comments: 2

I got a book to recommend those interested in Islam. Jeffery Lang's "Struggling to Surrender", and 'Even Angels Ask", I read the 2nd and the first I will start on inshallah. for a look into specifically a woman's experience, check out "Daughters of Another Path" by Carol Anway. To of the above mentioned books were at my university library(muslims with universities in town and donate or ask their schools to by them, mine did get a book at my request.)

I'm reading them, I feel deconstructed, a lot of things are coming back to me now. born and raised in america, my home, and muslim. What awesome, unique, and rewarding experience this may turn out to be. For the sake of God, inshallah khayr,

Asalamu alaykum, John

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