My personal opinion on flogging? I'm uncomfortable with corporal punishment, but sometimes it may be less cruel than prison. If I had the choice between going to jail for five years or taking 50 lashes and getting it over with, I think I'd go for the whipping. Corporal punishment also doesn't deprive a family of a wage-earner for an extended period of time. Prison is cruel too, in the form of violence and rape as well as confinement - the difference is that the cruelty takes place behind closed doors.This same point is made in some Muslim critiques of incarceration; see The Jail Punishment and Regarding Punishments by Confinement in Jail.
All comments are copyright their authors
Here's who's pinging me:
The following is a list of the ten most recent entries in veiled4allah as of Mar 02, 2006:
View a list of all entries in veiled4allah
This entry has been tagged as covering the following subjects: fiqh law reallysays prisons analysis. The following is a list of the ten most recent entries in Al-Muhajabah's Islamic Blogs that share any of these tags:
A semantic analysis of this entry also suggests the following keywords to search for related content on: islamic law, restorative justice, standards proof, corporal punishments, corporal punishment, punishment, law, islamic, prison, Islamic, punishments, crime, think, may, people, corporal, rape, crimes, family, justice, incarceration, form, restorative, shari, part
What links here: View a list of other entries in this blog (if any) that link to this entry
If you're interested in law, check out The Niqabi Paralegal, my blog about legal issues facing Muslims in the United States.
For more clarifications about what Islam really says, see Some Quranic Verses on Jihad and What Islam Really Says about Killing the Innocent.
Or look generally for informational pages on my website tagged with fiqh, law, reallysays, prisons, analysis
A semantic search of Al-Muhajabah's Islamic Blogs suggests the following as the ten entries most closely related to this entry:
Check out other web pages (if any) that I've bookmarked via del.icio.us that share the same tags: fiqh, law, reallysays, prisons, analysis
Explore reference materials from Answers.com about these subjects: fiqh, law, reallysays, prisons, analysis
Read news stories at Common Times about these subjects: fiqh, law, reallysays, prisons, analysis
View search results at gada.be metasearch service for these subjects: fiqh, law, reallysays, prisons, analysis
Find books at Amazon.com on these subjects: fiqh, law, reallysays, prisons, analysis
Check Waypath for blog entries generally related to this entry, or Technorati or Bloglines for blog entries that link to this entry.
Technorati tags: View blog entries, bookmarks and photos tagged by others with the same subjects as this entry: fiqh law reallysays prisons analysis
For external resources on the topic of this entry, you can run a search for its title issues in penal law (Google, DayPop, Feedster) or keyword(s) fiqh law reallysays prisons analysis (Google, DayPop, Feedster). DayPop is a search engine similar to Google that focuses on searching news sources and blogs. Feedster searches blogs via RSS feeds.
Having worked in a youth prison myself, I can confirm that prison does very little for inmates, other than further destroy their self-image and feeling of worth, and ruin their chances for futur employment.
However, I am made uncomfortable by your description of Sharia law. What happens when someone commits a crime that is not witnessed, but that could be discovered by modern forensics? For instance, if a man raped a woman and isn't seen, would that be punishable under Sharia?
Also, if revenge for murder is allowed, when will the killing stop? Potentially, a revenge for murder could lead to further revenge for the revenge and so on.
talking about the previous article i also feel that it may just be another form of slavery. most of them are black males that are in prison. little is done by the government to help clean up the neighborhoods. In Washington DC my uncle says they redo the roads each year to keep them nice, in the white house
they live in luxery, but about 2 blocks away is a ghetto that has it really bad.
About the slavery part, they put them in prison, then they have them do manual work. for example I saw the prison movie "Life", with Eddie murphy and Martin Lawrence, and they have them working out in fields. instead of removing injustices within their communities, they lock them up for long periods of time and put them in the fields or factories and get them to work for no pay, but for imprisonment.
it can be seen as slavery all over again.
I don't believe that they want to improve the ghettos till I see it, the prison system gives this country free labor.
asalamu alaykum, John
If the standards of proof are not met, the fixed punishments (called hudud in Arabic) cannot be meted out. Instead, the judge can apply a discretionary (ta'zir in Arabic) punishment.
Thus if the woman was raped without witnesses, but forensic evidence uncovers the crime, then the judge is free to give a punishment that he feels suitable.
In regard to revenge for killing, John is correct. This is not an issue of private revenge any more than filing a lawsuit against someone is. Any kind of attack or assault that occurs outside the law is a crime and will be dealt with accordingly. The issue is also addressed in the article that I linked to. The author says:
Another concept of qisas crimes is the area of punishment. Each victim has the right to ask for retaliation and, historically, the person's family would carry out that punishment. Modern Islamic law now requires the government to carry out the qisas punishment. Historically, some grieving family member may have tortured the offender in the process of punishment. Now the government is the independent party that administers the punishment, because torture and extended pain is contrary to Islamic teachings and Sharia Law.
I hope this helps answer your questions, God willing.
Brilliant and informative post, Sister.
The problem with "Islamic Law" (in those scare quotes) is that anything and everything a Muslim jurist decides is called "Shari'ah". But we have a different word for Muslim jurists who take decisions based on the sources of Islamic law: fiqh (jurispruidence). Shari'ah, imho, ought to be limited to that which is clear cut from the Qur'an (and Sunnah). This means we have buit a handful of laws in the Shari'ah. But this, of course, is solely dependent on the meaning of the word.
Further, I think our contemprary jurists and thinkers need to differentiate morals and law, which seem to hae been mixed up. (An obvious example is that of slavery - legally it was accepted by the Qur'an, yet the Qur'an tried to uplift the moral conscious of society wrt slaver, i.e. reach a state where slavery is no longer morally acceptable in society, so is abolished legally.)
I suppose then, that the cases where women in Nigeria can be sentenced to death for adultery given the fact of a pregnancy used as evidence aren't really part of Shari'a? It doesn't sound like it, based on what you've explained, and that's one of the things that springs immediately to my mind when I think of Islamic law, and probably to a lot of other people's, too.
But then, an article I was reading a while back made the point that when a country first adopts Islamic law, it's often a lot easier (and makes more of a statement) to impose a universal dress code and set up a morals police than it is to adopt interest-free banking (for example).
In fact, considering the financial interests of western countries, it's probably a lot harder to adopt interest-free banking than it is many other practices, including the type of behavior not sanctioned by any religion.
I think you're right about the priorities of many Islamist groups when they want to implement what they consider to be Islamic law. This is not to say that all groups are like this. There may be other circumstances of which we are not aware. Nonetheless, most of these groups seem to place a heavy emphasis on enforcing hijab and on implementing lashings and stonings with abandon, and give less emphasis to other parts.
If the people are not devoted to Islam in their hearts, forcing it on them from the outside will not accomplish anything.
Here's an excerpt :
" the body as the major target of penal repression disappeared"
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~felluga/punish.html
I wish that excerpt had kept going a few more paragraphs. It's been too long since I've read it but it basically comments on the role of the state in punishment and how it was better to lock people up then use the guillotine. Perhaps someone else can elaborate more on this here.
"In this brilliant work, the most influential philosopher since Sartre suggests that such vaunted reforms as the abolition of torture and the emergence of the modern penitentiary have merely shifted the focus of punishment from the prisoner's body to his soul."
considering the statement that the standards of proof are not met what about rape? adultery, in the context of pre or extra martial sex and not as infidelity is widely accepted in western society and hence punishments meted out for that 'crime' in islamic countries is harshly scrutinised. however, when you consider rape which is an eggregious crime in any society, and with forensics making it possible to be certain of the crime having been committed, wouldn't it qualify for hudud, rather than tazir? my interpretation of the quranic text is that the crime should have been committed by the accused party for the accused party to merit punishment. to ask for two or four witnesses seems unreasonable, and, more importantly, not required, am i wrong in this interpretation?
jazakallah for pointing that out, as is evident my knowledge is severely limited, but veiled4allah is proving very educational,
assalam-o-alaikum,
ubaid.
Subject: Restorative Justice?
From what I understand about "restorative justice," it would be very helpful in cases of property crimes, such as robbery, burglary, defacement, etc.However, I question its usefulness in extremely emotional cases, like those of rape and murder.
To ask a rape survivor to participate in a healing process for anyone except herself is to disrespect what she has suffered.To ask the family members of a murder victim to talk with the murderer and help bring him back into the community demands more than I think I could do.
For violent crimes, "restorative justice" frankly sounds like a pipe dream.