veiled4allah: Terrorism is not Islam veiled4allah: Terrorism is not IslamIt makes me depressed and angry when I see Muslims who commit wrongs to further their causes. They should remember that any victory they might gain in the world that was not by means that God has allowed will be made void by God on Judgment Day, and that is no victory at all but the ultimate loss. The only way to gain true victory is to obey the limits that God has set. Even if a people have been wronged, they need to seek restitution in the right way and not commit further wrongs themselves.and further:
Whoever has done this has committed a terrible sin and crime. The Quran says "Whoever kills a single human being unjustly is as though he had killed all of humankind" (Surah al-Ma'ida ayah 32). Deliberate murder of another person will put you in Hell forever. Imagine the punishment for those who have killed dozens, hundreds, or thousands. Whoever has committed this atrocity will have God's wrath upon him.I hope that this is clear enough and that you can see that it applies to any deliberate killing of civilians, whenever and wherever it may occur.
All comments are copyright their authors
Here's who's pinging me:
(no pings yet)The following is a list of the ten most recent entries in veiled4allah as of Mar 02, 2006:
View a list of all entries in veiled4allah
This entry has been tagged as covering the following subjects: condemn terrorism. The following is a list of the ten most recent entries in Al-Muhajabah's Islamic Blogs that share any of these tags:
A semantic analysis of this entry also suggests the following keywords to search for related content on: originally posted, arab world, consider source, take time, disturbing islam, muslims, Muslims, islam, Islam, see, people, terrorism, anti, memri, say, MEMRI, world, religion, why, take, time, muslim, Muslim, even, hardy
What links here: View a list of other entries in this blog (if any) that link to this entry
For more on why Islam condemns terrorism, see Muslims Condemn Terrorism.
Deepen your understanding of the issue of terrorism by reading Controversial Issues About Islam: Terrorism.
Or look generally for informational pages on my website tagged with condemn, terrorism
A semantic search of Al-Muhajabah's Islamic Blogs suggests the following as the ten entries most closely related to this entry:
Check out other web pages (if any) that I've bookmarked via del.icio.us that share the same tags: condemn, terrorism
Explore reference materials from Answers.com about these subjects: condemn, terrorism
Read news stories at Common Times about these subjects: condemn, terrorism
View search results at gada.be metasearch service for these subjects: condemn, terrorism
Find books at Amazon.com on these subjects: condemn, terrorism
Check Waypath for blog entries generally related to this entry, or Technorati or Bloglines for blog entries that link to this entry.
Technorati tags: View blog entries, bookmarks and photos tagged by others with the same subjects as this entry: condemn terrorism
For external resources on the topic of this entry, you can run a search for its title terrorism is not islam (Google, DayPop, Feedster) or keyword(s) condemn terrorism (Google, DayPop, Feedster). DayPop is a search engine similar to Google that focuses on searching news sources and blogs. Feedster searches blogs via RSS feeds.
Many A's are B does not mean many B's are A.
A very significant percentage of the world's prominent terrorists are Muslims, that does not make all terrorists Muslims or vise versa.
There is a problem of public support of Muslim clergy in Islamic countries for anti-Israeli and anti-western terrorism, in part because the system of goverment in many such countries does not allow those who might publically oppose such views to do so without being jailed or physically attacked.
Many of the views Muslim clerics in the US and UK express to the media are also radically anti-western & Israeli, but I hope that is a product of media bias and not actual representation.
I would be much more comfortable if I saw more rejection of these views from Muslims in public. Not "I love Israel" but "I love the US, my home, and believe that everyone deserves to live in peace. That includes both Palestinians and Israelis ".
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh
Your point is correct - nowhere in any authentic islamic text is terrorism condoned. However, in the article you mentioned, no specific party was charged with a crime. No proof was given that Muslims were the wrong doers. Rather, Muslims were speaking out against what happened. Let's not be hasty to assume that Muslims planted that bomb.
However, it is possible that I missed something...was there proof in a previous article that some ignorant Muslims did commit this crime?
Another problem with your "overwhelming empirical evidence" is that it may cause those responsible for finding and prosecuting the wrong-doers to look in the wrong places.
When the Oklahoma City attack occurred, people assumed that Muslims were to blame. Fortunately, the law enforcement refused to wear blinders and looked around at the evidence, which showed that Timothy McVeigh had committed the crime.
These are good times for anti-government nuts, in fact. They can do anything and people will go looking for a Muslim instead of a far-right-wing conservative.
MEMRI
Specifically the passage that says:
'Allah, make [American and British] children orphans and their women widows'
Haven't heard a christian religious leader of any importance say anything quite as vitriolic as that. This was on Palistinian TV. Islam needs to get out of the dark ages, it seems that is where they are stuck...
This is what is so disturbing about the Islam religion
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD49003
Hardy - pls consider the source. MEMRI is a known anti-Palestinian, anti-Islam site that does translations of articles on the Middle East. See also this Guardian article for more info on them and their methods.I was just wondering if you had heard anything from Salam Pax lately? I've looked at his web log, but there is nothing since March 24 on it. I guess the phone system/electric is down in Baghdad, so that would be the reason. But was just wondering if maybe he had gotten any emails out somehow. I enjoyed reading his everyday experiences from the city of dis-information.
Well a few points of fact. I did not attack the Quran or the basis of the religion. What specifically I was noting was the way it was practised on Palestinian TV. This was not some minor channel that no one watches, this was national Palestinian TV and this was the Friday prayer service. This was not simply a heretical preacher this was the national Palestinian TV, Pretty significant in my book, especially if I was a palestinian.
This is why I said it was like the dark ages. This is how countries where in Europe during that period (see from Dawn to Decadence).
Even though this organization may be anti-everything are you saying that the key phrase 'Allah, make [American and British] children orphans and their women widows' was translated incorrectly? If so what should it be translated as? Forgive thy neighbor?
Come on guys, this is equivalent to the KKK essentially getting the nod by the local and federal goverments in the 20's and 30's in the US. Why can't the muslim community understand and accept this, why are there so many apologists? The same venom has been spewed from the minarets of Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc....
If you'd like to have a dialogue then lets, otherwise just dismiss me as a racist (as some have) and we can let it go at that...
And yet even with all of this, you say that my religion is disturbing. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that is the way that it came across to me. It made me feel that you had already made a judgment about me, personally, based on my religion and didn't bother to take the time to learn what my actual views are.
I hope that you'll take the time to think and be more careful in what you say. I don't think you would like it if someone called your religion bad because some members of it were bad. So don't do that to others.
Even though this organization may be anti-everything are you saying that the key phrase 'Allah, make [American and British] children orphans and their women widows' was translated incorrectly? If so what should it be translated as? Forgive thy neighbor?
Ok well, I didn't say they were anti-everything. Also, I did not say the translation of that sentence was incorrect. I did ask to please consider the source.I don't see anybody calling you "racist", either - that's not the word al-M used, so no need to wallow in it.
One last note, re: Europe coming out of the dark ages. To extend the metaphor, we have Islam to thank for much of that.
We used to have a saying - the Europeans went off to the Crusades, and came back with math and science...
Originally posted by Hardy -
This is what is so disturbing about the Islam religion
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD49003
Hardy - pls consider the source. MEMRI is a known anti-Palestinian, anti-Islam site that does translations of articles on the Middle East. See also this Guardian article for more info on them and their methods.
MEMRI simply provide translations. Nowhere have I seen the accuracy of their translations questioned. Whilst you may not like what they choose to translate, surely you should be more concerned with the people who spew this bile rather than those that merely translate.No vicious anti-semitic/anti-American nonsense = No MEMRI. The Arab world is awash with this type of Jew hatred, to simply attack MEMRI without considering the source of their translations is to willfully ignore the problem.
I also find it very interesting that you provided that link to the Guardian article on MEMRI, yet for some reason failed to notice this rebuttal, which was also published by The Guardian a short time later. (see next post for link)
Did you ever stop to think about Mr Whittaker's motives when he published this article?
As you rightly said "Please consider the source"!
note: comment edited to remove bad link
link
note: comment edited to shorten hyperlinked text
First, I'd like to direct your attention (as I directed Hardy's) to my archives. Take a look at what I have to say. Does that give you hope that there can be a better Islam than the one that's often on display? If not, please post and tell me why not.
Second, and this is something I hope that Hardy will also take the time to think about, remember that sometimes we only hear the voices that are shouting or saying outrageous things. A hundred preachers could be giving completely unobjectionable sermons and one preacher giving an outrageous sermon. The outrageous sermon is the one that will be reported. Even one sermon like that is too many but if you focus only on it, you overlook the fact that 99% of people are saying something else!
That is the real problem I have with how MEMRI is often used by people. It is taken to be completely representative of the Arab world and used to support people who believe that "all" Muslims or Arabs are bad (fanatic, violent, anti-Semitic, whatever).
Instead of spending all your time looking for the worst that the Muslim world has to offer, why not take the time to look for the best that it has to offer, and then encourage the people who provide that? Helping the moderate voices to be better-heard will do a lot more to bring about reform than just condemning the extreme voices.
The reason I responded so strongly to Hardy is that I found his words especially hard to take given that my original blog entry was a comprehensive condemnation of terrorism and the killing of innocent civilians. Isn't this the kind of thing you want to see Muslims saying? Then why greet the Muslim who does with "that's all well and good, but look at this evil thing another Muslim said"? What am I supposed to do about that? I've said this before to another visitor here who always takes the same tone. I am just an ordinary person. I don't have some great power or influence. And in any case, I can't control the behavior of anyone but myself. All I can do is speak up for the truth as I see it and hope that people will listen.
MEMRI simply provide translations. Nowhere have I seen the accuracy of their translations questioned. Whilst you may not like what they choose to translate, surely you should be more concerned with the people who spew this bile rather than those that merely translate.
Mac - yes, I read the rebuttal, in which the author addresses everything Whittaker says, except for the golden goose, the backgrounds of the people who run the joint...Also, please point out to me where I have "attacked" MEMRI. Again, all I said was "consider the source". Hardly an attack.I do have a pretty good idea of what issues I personally should be concerned about, so please don't lecture me on this.
f vrwhlmng vdnc s th crtr, thn trrrsm nd mrc cnnt b dstngshd. Th phlpns, Vtnm, Gtml, Ncrg, Cb, rn, rq, nd mny thr ntns hv th scrs t prv t.
I take on board your comments and wholeheartedly agree with most of what you have to say. I am an occasional visitor to your blog and am impressed with what you have to say and the way in which you say it.
When forming my opinions, I try to get as much information as possible and from as many different sources as time permits. MEMRI is not my principle source of information for information on Muslims and the Arab world.
My original gripe was with the criticism of MEMRI. MEMRI provide translations for Friday sermons, Newspapers and and also provide video's from Arab TV and yes, they do indeed paint the Arab world in a poor light. They highlight the worst instances because I guess it serves their agenda but to criticise them for accurately translating what are after all mainstream sources serves no purpose. It's not as though they are translating meeting of the local KKK equivalent, this is mainstream.
A lot of my business is done in the Middle East and this involves a good deal of travel in the region. Two things that strike me about the Arab world are firstly the quite staggering degree of hospitality shown towards me by the "average" guy that I meet in the course of a normal day and secondly the equally staggering degree of hatred towards Jews. Yes I've seen the popularity of Mein Kampf and The Protocols and yes I've seen the not so subtle hook-nosed money-grubbing cariacatures that are all too pervasive in the cartoons in the state-sanctioned press. This is not just a "MEMRI moment" this is something that I experience first-hand on a regular basis.
A Jewish friend has invited me to Israel with him in order for me to celebrate passover with his family, I have to now check whether an Israeli stamp in my passport will reflect badly on me for future visits to the ME before I can accept his invitation.
A lot of this behaviour reminds me of life in the UK 30 years ago when blacks and Asians suffered racism. I myself used to hear my own Father use the term N***** every time someone black came on the TV, he probably heard the same from his Father. My kids will never hear that filth from my mouth, so I guess you can say the cycle is now broken (in my family at least).
That said, I guess that's part of the reason that I come to blogs like your own, to reassure myself that there are a good number of people who don't buy or promote this peculiar brand of bigotry.
Subject: Muslim Leaders Must Take a Stand against suicide bombings
It will be good to see criticism and rebuke coming from all religious leaders. Muslim leaders really need to step up and take a stand. A stand that all nations will see. If they do not take a visible stand against all forms of innocent killing such as in Israel with suicide bombings, then they are just as guilty.Take a stand, condem suicide bombings.
For more Muslims condemning terrorism, see here.
BTW, have you heard about the groups of Israelis that attacked and killed Palestinian teenagers who were at school? Do you demand that Jewish leaders everywhere speak up to condemn that action or stand guilty of it? Of course not, the idea is ridiculous. So why do you demand it of Muslims?
Palestinians would have no reason to Until then, Palestinians should not condemn themselves for defending their nation against zionist invaders. Bottom line is behave like savages and you'll be treated as such.
Is that not true in the reverse? If I am savage towards you than you are savage towards me and vice versa. By that thesis both sides are justified! "They took my land!" "They attacked me first!" "They beat me by surprise!" "They are sneaky, greedy, mean, cruel, evil!" etc.All the above could be said about various circumstances on BOTH sides.
Also, if Israel truly used all the might that some ascribe to it to on the Palestinians, there would no longer be Palestinians. I am thankful we are not a fraction as savage as we are purported to be, while mourning that even what we do is no solution.
I wouldn't mind either, Driver, if you ascribed the same value to my life as you do to, rightfully, those of my cousins. (namely the highest value)
BTW, have you heard about the groups of Israelis that attacked and killed Palestinian teenagers who were at school? Do you demand that Jewish leaders everywhere speak up to condemn that action or stand guilty of it? Of course not, the idea is ridiculous. So why do you demand it of Muslims?
I condemn it! (not that I'm a leader) It appears that it may only have been the group taking credit for something they didn't do. Police think it may have been an attempt at bomb construction gone wrong. School BombingI hope those who would claim such things, much less do them, are captured soon. Such "defenders" are worse then enemies to us.
Fascinated, I had heard about the update to the story that you mention. I also had incorrectly stated that some victims had been killed, when in fact they had not. Remind me not to post news reports from memory while responding in a hurry between classes
Re: "such defenders are worse than enemies" I would say that too, about anybody who claims the name of Islam when they attack and kill civilians.
I have an emergency! I'm having a discussion with a Hindu blogger on my blog in the comment box.. need some intelligent Islamic input in the argument!
Subject: Re: Terrorism is not Islam
Militants who kill or harm others intentionally for any reason whatsoever are without faith/religion. Hiding behind the shield that is religion is both cowardly and blasphemous. The media and the rest of the world have responsibility to address the difference between a coward hiding behind Islam and a true Muslim.Yet, I do wish to see more condemnation of suicide bombers and anti-West sentiments from the Muslim world. Silence is deadly. Silence signals affirmation. Let the rest of the world know that you do not approve.
Finally, I have always been somewhat frustrated by the manner in which Muslims enjoy differentiating themselves from the non-Muslims. What's different between Muslims and the rest of humanity? Religion? Race? What? Please stop putting barriers between the peoples of the world. Between the Muslims and the non-'believers'. I see no difference. We're all human beings. I may not believe in the same God (heck, I don't even believe in God, I am a Buddhist), but I am a human being who is trying to find her own meaning in life - just like everybody else is. Just like you are, as well.
Sincerely, Olivia
Subject: Re: Terrorism is not Islam
Thank you for visiting and for sharing your thoughts, Olivia. I encourage you to check out some of the links on the sidebars of the veiled4allah page, in particular the section on the left sidebar of Islamic resources. You will find a link to an entire page of Muslim condemnations of terrorism. You will also find several links to pages relating to how Islam views non-Muslims. I also just yesterday evening posted about Islam and pluralism and I encourage you to check it out.You are correct, but I think you will find that Muslims have not been as silent as you imagine. You just need to know where to look.