veiled4allah: torture destroys our humanity

darulharb said:

Total comments: 61

Wow, you're using four-letter words again. So what was so offensive about my last post, exactly? Or is this the prerogative reserved exclusively for you (and it's usually - and unsurprisingly - Israel that merits such passion)?

Ikram said:

Total comments: 4

Darulharb (can I call you Mr.Harb --same as my Member of Parliament, though I doubt you're of Lebanese origin), the author of a blog always has privileges that commentors don't. This isn't an unbiased vehicle for journalism, it's a personal site. The owner of the blog can do whatever he or she wants, whether consistent or not.

As for Israel, this blog doesn't dwell on Israel, you do.

Should you have an interest in Islamic law, Islam in America, or Paralegal studies, there is a great deal to learn here. Otherwise, what are you trying to gain from the blog and the comments dialogue?

Al-Munaqabah said:

Total comments: 996

Darulharb, your last comment used considerably more vulgar language than a single swear word, as well as making personal attacks on other people who have commented here. Had you left my other visitors alone, I might have left your comment alone.

If you weren't so busy trying to see hypocrisy and evil motives behind everything I do you would realize that there's a world of difference between the crude tone of your comment that I deleted and the blog entry that I wrote (if you followed a couple of the links you would realize that I was quoting Jim Henley).

Finally, I am really baffled why you mention Israel. My post and the links in it are about the al-Qa'ida suspect Khalid Shaikh Muhammad and therefore the countries involved are Pakistan and the United States. If I meant to make a comment about Israel, I would do so. In fact, I do find Israel's use of torture offensive, just as I do Pakistan's. However, Pakistan's was the only one I chose to provide a condemnation of at this time.

ken said:

Total comments: 5

s my lst cmmnt nvr sw th lght f dy s rl pst.
fnd t vry ntrstng tht slm cndmns trtr nd trrrsm. Thr mst b vry, vry lrg nmbr f Mslms wh g t f thr wy t gnr th Krn's tchngs. slm hs mr spnsrs f trtr nd trrrsm thn th rst f th wrld cmbnd. ntrstngly ngh s qts frm vrs mm's, Mllh's tc., n n lmst dly bss, prmtng ths vry cts tht slm sppsdly prhbts.
My qstn s; f ths rlly s nt slm, whn r th rl, rlgs prcttnrs' f th fth gng t stnd p nd cndm ths typ f ctvty?
knw, drngd mllh wll d t ccsnlly bt tht dsn't cnt. Why d s n cndmntn fr ch 10000 prclmtns spprtng t?
Kn

Al-Munaqabah said:

Total comments: 996

Ken, I do not have control over any person other than myself. I can only speak out for the truth as I know and understand it, and hope that others will listen.

You spend a lot of time going to places like LGF that provide only one side of the story, then you complain that you never hear the other side. Just as it is my obligation to present that other side, it is also your obligation to seek it out if you desire to discover the truth. Just as I can't compel bad Muslims to listen to me, neither can I compel you to listen to me. You have to be willing to take that step yourself.

I hope that this is your reason for continuing to visit my blog despite the fact that you disparage just about everything I say and call it not good enough. I am sorry that you are not willing to work with me to improve things in the Muslim world in however small a way, that you simply come here to stand in condemnation.

I am also sorry that you seem to dwell so much on the faults of Muslims. Perhaps Muslims have more and worse faults than other groups of people, but it is disingenous to act like all bad in the world is due to Islam and Muslims. Maybe you don't believe that, but because you never admit that there is any fault in your own side or in the groups that you suport, it makes you appear rather one-sided.

Joel said:

Total comments: 10

Alas. It seems that some of us who strive to promote human rights dwell on faults while others use what we uncover to belittle their enemies. They don't seem to see that the problem is the faults, regardless of who is committing them. It's a kind of insurance that they take out in the likely event that they, themselves, commit similar or worse faults. Or a veil, more opaque than any preventing their eyes from looking upon Muslim women -- whose purpose is not the preservation of dignity, but redirection.

They are as common criminals not wanting to be caught. Through the School of the Americas and other programs, the United States has promoted the use of torture around the world, in many Islamic countries as well as Christian and Jewish.

My response to any one who twists the screws on a human hand or denies a human mouth its proper sustenance or causes a human lungs to fill with water is the same. I don't care if you are Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Tony Blair, George W. Bush, or the holiest man or woman on the planet: I will speak on behalf of the suffering against torture. Stopping torture, wherever it occurs is my object.

When we descend to the level of namecalling and, worse, of supporting an administration which promotes the disintegration of the Bill of Rights, we aren't dealing with the faults we claim to abhor: we are making them a fixture.

ken said:

Total comments: 5

dn't prtnd tht thr r nt flts n ll sds, lst f ll th sd tht crrntly rprsnt. mk ths sttmnt bcs dn't ccpt, fr xmpl, tht bcs m prtstnt, cthlc, mslm, tht th pstn f thr prtstnt, cthlc, mslm dvcts s pprprt jst bcs thr fth mtchs mn.
ctlly spnd mr tm n yr wblg thn n Lttl Grn Ftblls nd mch mr n mny dvrs sts. m nt lkng fr wht s sd s mch s th cnsstncy f th lgc spprtng th cmmnts.
Frtntly, r nfrtntly s th cs my b, hv fnd tht rgmnts prsntd by ths fvrng mltry ntrvntn n fgnstn, rq, Nrth Kr, tc. r fr mr sbstntv thn ths f th ppstn.
blv tht ll f th vlbl vdnc spprts th ffrt t rt t trrrst grps ND stts s qckly nd ffcntly s pssbl. Ths ppl d nt nly gnr th cnvntns f mdrn scty bt r ctvly prsng th dstrctn f tht scty. dn't wnt my chldrn nd grndchldrn nhbtng "wr-zn-plnt-rth".
W r t crssrds. nc th gn s t f th bttl t cnnt b pt bck. W my lrdy b t lt bt tht s n rsn nt t try!
Th bn ldn's nd hssn's f th wrld d nt ndrstnd nythng bt frc. f Ghnd hd trd hs nnvlnt pprch gnst ny thr cnty thn Brtn (r th S t tht tm) h wld nt nly hv bn nsccssfl, h wld hv bn dd t mch rlr g, n mst f th mddl strn cntrs h wld hv bn trtrd nd mrdrd wthn mmnts.
Hw d y dl wth ths ppl wtht sng frc?
hv bn srchng th prpsls f ll th "pc-t-ny-prc" crwd fr tht n smpl nswr. S fr t hs ldd m.
Tht s th qstn hv bn tryng t gt y t nswr wtht sccss. nfrtntly, qtng vrs rlgs thrts dsn't rlly dl wth tdys vry rl prblms.
By th wy, pprct th fct tht y dd nt spprt r ttmpt t mk xcss fr th bhvr f thr Mslms. Y r rght, y r rspnsbl fr yr wn bhvr nd nt tht f th thrs. t wld b vry nc f sm f th rdcls pprchd th rlgn n th sm wy.
Kn

Al-Munaqabah said:

Total comments: 996

Thank you, Ken. That is one of the most reasonable comments you've posted to my blog.

I have stated this time and again. I am not opposed to the use of force in itself. I am opposed to the use of force in Iraq because I believe the consequences of doing so will be worse than the consequences of not doing so.

And as I know I've also stated before, I don't claim to have all the answers. But I do know when I see my country doing something I believe is wrong, and I feel a moral obligation to speak up about why I believe it is wrong.

I encourage you to keep reading more and more widely. Not all liberal bloggers are alike. We have different reasons for opposing the war and different answers to it. In particular, I encourage you to visit Jonathan Edelstein's blog. He's somewhat more conservative than I am so he may be more to your liking, and he has a very active comments section and would be glad to answer any questions or challenges you put to him.

Finally, I will just say this. I try at all times to speak the truth of what I believe and to follow what I believe to be the most morally correct position. You may disagree with my beliefs, but I hope that you have at least always found me to be honest about what they are.

ken said:

Total comments: 5

Nt blvng n wr s fn, bt s sttd prvsly, wht ltrntv d y ffr?
Th Frnch dmnd tht w nvr d nythng, thr cntrs thnk tht wtng 12 yrs s nt nrly sffcnt tm. thrs rlly (?) blv tht pttng nspctrs n wll slv th prblm. fnd ths rgmnt mr thn mldly ldcrs bcs..........
1. Mr. Blx spnt mny yrs n rq nspctng fr nclr wpns nd dclrd th cnty clr f thm. ps, n ntr prgrm ws nrthd ftr ths clrnc.
2. Nrth Kr spnt 8 yrs ndr nspctrs nd prms nt t dvlp nclr wpns. ps! Thy tk th mny thy wr gttng t drp th prgrm nd sd t t bld th prgrm nstd f fdng thr ppl.
S, gn, m tryng t gt y t thnk, wht s th ltrntv?
f y cn cm p wth sltn tht chvs th dsrd gl wtht rmvng hsn by frc pls prsnt t.
Hndwrngng nd dng nthng s th wrst pssbl ltrntv.
f thr r lrg nmbrs f dths n ths wr t wll b bcs hsn s kllng hs wn ppl. vry dy w wt wll rslt n mr rq dths nt lss.
vry dy w wt wll rslt n mr nvrnmntl dvsttn, nt lss.
By th wy thr s rltvly smpl nswr t rslv th mttr wtht wr bt t s th pc prpnnts tht mk ths mpssbl.
Wht s yr sltn?
Kn

Al-Munaqabah said:

Total comments: 996

Ken, will you please JUST READ WHAT I'VE WRITTEN??? I don't like to shout, but you're driving me up the wall. I have tried so many times to explain my position, to explain why I believe what I believe, to state what I know and what I don't know. And you keep coming back and posting the same thing over and over again. I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

I posted a link in my last comment. Please visit Jonathan's blog or any of the others on my blogroll. Ask them your questions too. It should be beyond obvious by now that I don't have the answers you're looking for.

All comments are copyright their authors

RSS feed of comments on this entry

Finished reading and posting comments? Return to veiled4allah