veiled4allah: Muslims and anti-Semitism veiled4allah: Muslims and anti-SemitismAll comments are copyright their authors
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Ken - I'm doing my best.
I just shake my head.
Nice blog by the way.
And thanks also to a.a. for visiting my blog. What I am talking about is not political disagreements between Muslims and Jews, but when Muslims make statements like the ones I referenced in my first paragraph. Whether or not there is a "racist ideology" behind it, the fact remains that saying all Jews are some way because they are Jewish is racist. The catalyst for these feelings is the political feud but some people are letting their anger and hatred go beyond bounds and that is wrong. Feel anger and hatred at the specific individuals who are harming and oppressing others, don't hate all people of that religion or ethnic group because of what a few have done. I say again, that is what is often being done to Muslims and we call it bigotry and racism then. If it's bigotry and racism when it's done to us, it's bigotry and racism when we do it to others.
"The fact remains that saying all Jews are some way because they are Jewish is racist."
Again I dont sense it is "racism" per say, maybe its just the classic case of demonizing the "enemy"? Of course, your point is that Jews shouldn’t be the “enemy” in the first place, which I agree with.
"If it's bigotry and racism when it's done to us, it's bigotry and racism when we do it to others."
Again, I disagree. I like to differentiate between two types of behavior that occurs here in America (towards Muslims). Some of it is racism, but I feel it is the small minority of incidents. Mostly, however, I find that statements of ignorance and hatered are fueled by Islamophobia, and not an inherent hate for Muslims. This makes me just a little sympathetic to the people who espouse it. I hope you see the difference.
Of course, in the end its all hate, which makes it equally repelling, whatever you wish to call it, but my point is that hate has many family members, and its good to know which personality its taking on.
It seems to me that you're opening a discussion of the roots or causes of enmity towards Jews (or towards Muslims by others), whereas my post is directed at the manifestations of this enmity. I would be glad to discusses the roots and causes with you. As I said previously, I don't think that there's some kind of "racist ideology" going on. I think that there are a number of factors and cirucmstances in the last half century or so that have caused some Muslims to go to extremes in their enmity.
But let's discuss that as its own topic instead of arguing over the semantics of my original blog entry.
Yep, nothing anti-Semitic about "cursing at all the Jews... very often... even in completely unrelated situations." Just a quaint (and charming) local quirk, is all.
First, beccause she is a Semite herself
Look, here's the thing. The term "anti-Semitisim" was coined in late 19th century by German Jew-haters to substitute for plain old Judenhass (Jew-hatred), which was becoming to be considered too coarse. But its essence, of course, have always remained the same: hatred of the Jews. Nothing more, nothing less.
Agruments of the sort "Arabs are Semites, too" are, thus, utter bullshit, and have always been used by anti-Semites themselves to try and deflect criticism. So, invoking them amounts, at the very least, to disingeniousness and playing word games of the worst kind.
a.a. - I'm an American and blogging in America. I use language the way that I'm accustomed to. If you think that my language will not communicate effectively to Arabs, then I'm afraid you'll have to translate it into the Arab context yourself because I obviously don't know that context.
Infidel69/darulharb - For once I agree with you - regarding the meaning of the word "anti-Semite". The way the word is used it means "hatred of the Jews" not "hatred of Semitic peoples". In any case, the fact that someone belongs to an ethnic group does not preclude their hating that ethnic group, or other members of the ethnic group that they consider different. To say that an Arab can't be anti-Semitic because she is herself an Arab and a Semite, is ridiculous.
I'll get back to your question about mutilation later, God willing. Got to run...
The site itself and its commentators are so anti-Muslim and anti-Arab. Its really sad.
Wow, this is hardly what I said. I feel like each time you missed my point and made too many assumptions about my beliefs/intentions (or maybe I'm just clumsy at expressing myself). Either way, I never said an Arab_cannot_be_anti-Semitic because they are Semitic themselves. That was not my line of reasoning. I just gave you that example to portray how "anti-Semitism" is a concept that was born in a place far away from Muslim lands, a place where the Semitic ethnicity of the Jewish people was considered inferior, and thus the term seems foreign and obscure when you drag it over and use it regarding some Muslims' hatred of the Jews. I don't know how else to explain it. I guess we just disagree about the nuances of definitions, and we'll leave it that. Anti-Semitism to me means hating Jews for their ethnicity, while to you and darulharb it means hating Jews- period, nothing else, nothing more. And whatever you call it, its not within Islam's teachings, so at least we are in agreement about the core issue at hand.
If Muslims do something like that, it is unislamic.
Sister a.a., I'm really sorry that we still don't seem to be understanding each other. But I'm glad that you're posting comments here and I hope to read your blog once you publish it, inshallah.
Khan made another good point about LGF. Strange how much the people there have come to resemble what they condemn in others. I posted this blog entry because I feel it's my duty as a Muslim to speak for the truth of Islam. I didn't do it to get anyone's approval. And I didn't do it so that I could be congratulated in a patronizing way by people who speak their own hatred and bigotry, about Islam and Muslims. I'm doing my own small part to end anti-Jewish bigotry among Muslims, now the LGF visitors should do their own small part to end anti-Muslim bigotry at that site. Otherwise you're a bunch of hypocrites.
Finally, the question of mutilation. What I would say is this. Killing is clearly forbidden, but the state is allowed to kill as a legal punishment for crime, i.e., the death penalty. Similarly, mutilation is forbidden, but the state is allowed to mutilate (in the form of cutting off a hand or other corporal punishments) as a legal punishment for crime. The same legal and moral argument that allows the death penalty while forbidding murder allows a punishment like cutting off a hand while forbidding mutilation.
I'll look some more into this question, God willing. This is just my first answer based on my knowledge and understanding.
Just keep on chugging the way you already are sis. I think your style is quite straightforward and not too difficult to understand, wherever in the world a person is reading. In the end, although its good to keep in my mind the connotations that your language holds for other people, its really unreasonable to hit the nail for every audience out there. As they say, you can't please everyone. Plus, I only mentioned Arabs because Jewish/Muslim tension today happens to be centered in the Arab/Israeli conflict. It was not a demand that you specifically address the Arab people in your blog. That would be a ludicrous request.
I am glad that you now understand the reasons for my opinion, and that we are on clearer terms
While I hate it when people blame everything wrong in the world on the West, I do think the specific kind of anti-Semitism we are seeing in the Middle East is a transplant from Europe.
Subject: Re: Muslims and anti-Semitism
June 27, 03Dear veiled4allah,
Salams. It's about time somebody looked into this issue. I've heard so much "anti-Semitism"(I know it's not quite the right term, but I can't think of any other one to use) among some of us Muslims. I'm sure it got a lot more popular after the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. I know Muslims were famous for centuries for protecting Jews when most people in Europe would like to have killed them off. Spain was a notable example. Unfortunately, I believe Muslim Spain fell because of the Muslims fighting amongst themselves, as so many of us are doing today. I see so many of us "playing ostrich" about the negative issues going on in our community--things we need to be facing, such as domestic violence, racism, etc. etc.We're making the "kafiroon" laugh at us. The dirty laundry is out of the closet,(excuse the mixed metaphor) We no longer have the luxury of hiding it--all we can do is clean it up, as best as possible. Wa Salam, salpurdy